WARNING! TOYOTA (TMCA) is watching! Be careful what you post online!

[ZZT86]

I get what you're saying buddy, but all things considered TMCA I reckon did well (for a change) to release this car under price expectation. They could have screwed us even more if they wanted to if not for the WRX. Yes it could always be cheaper, but it isn't. Geee, even the base Falcon costs more than this ! And I would have loved nothing more to see Nissan in there with their 200SX/Sylvia just like old times, but it isn't, and no doubt they're kicking themselves for not paying attention to what Toyota/Subaru having been doing in the last few years & I'm sure they got plans of their own, but it's too late - Toyota have set the benchmark.

In my opinion I was expecting the 86 to start @ 40K + onroads & the hi-spec to start @45K + onroads (going by usual TMCA pricing) so they have undercut my expectations by a whopping 10K ! Only the WRX would've tickled my fancy @ that price although it a different beast altogether.

[RAN94A]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

Read this first:
"I can bet my house that if Nissan or Hyundai would have released the new version of Sylvia and Genesis at a MUCH cheaper price, at the same time, Toyota would've...drum roll...dropped their price to be competitive. If Nissan or Hyundai would have asked 29k for the top model then we would've paid similar prices as the yanks!"

Both cars are rear wheel drive with more power than GTS. Dont get me wrong I absolutely love the GTS but I still believe is over priced. My arguement was:
1. this car is priced differently in different country right? gooood
2. yanks are paying much much less than us, right? about 10 k than gt base model. goood
3. The production costs are the same, for Au as well as US, right? Nothing different whatsoever.

If a rear wheel drive car was to be released at the same time with a much lower price tag, TMCA would've reconsidered their price.
Funny how reading through this post and much older posts people were complainig about Australia being ripped off and now is not true! WTF???

ill count the ways in which you are wrong:

1. hyundai released a RWD car much cheaper - read some reviews about the genesis coupe... the engine is fuel hungry, steering feel is poor, suspension is floaty.. its great for a hyundai but not as great as the 86.
   86 retains its value because you're paying for a quality sports car with genuine driver enjoyment.
2. nissan releases an S16 much cheaper - OH WAIT THEY DONT HAVE ONE and even the one they were/are working on (i read it was scrapped) was never going to be RWD http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...frs_brz/?ti=v2
   86 shits all over the imaginary car... retains value
3. you carefully avoided the FACT that the FR-S is actually a lower spec to that even of our GT so there is a difference. and aside from that you're comparing two completely seperate countries with no idea of the cost to operate in either economy. It's about scalability... sure it doesnt cost much difference to produce.. but shipping, taxes, wages, parts would all be significantly different because they have the buying power.
4. i've always thought the 86 was a bargain and people who complained about it being expensive were delusional whingers.

show me a car thats comparible and better value... the ones that spring to mind are MX5.. RX8.. S2K.. 370Z which are all way more expensive.

i honestly dont understand how people can still be standing there with their hand out complaining this car isnt good enough value. the smile it puts on my face every day is worth 35-40k easily.

[Panman]

I'll weigh in on this one.

One of my previous cars was an S2 Elise bought secondhand. Cost me near as dammit the same as the GTS. It had 35000K on the clock, and felt like there should have been a 1 in front of the 3.

The 86 is 90% the fun of the Elise and a hell of a lot more liveable without the service, insurance and maintenance headaches as well as not suffering from BFO, and compared to an older Elise has ABS, Airbags, Traction control none of which an Elise in the price range of an 86 has.

If I had the ability to own a completely dedicated track toy (financial, storage, personal time) I'd get an Elise or Exige in a heartbeat. I don't so the 86 works for me and is great value.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by YourFearlessLeader

This has been a myth for years. Unless they are writing your vin down i wouldnt worry.

It's been real in the US with other manufacturers. This is really Toyota's first chance to do it since it's their first performance car with a mature internet.

Mitsu USA had someone assigned to cross-referencing autocross results with their evo owner warranty files and voiding warranties (owners didn't find out until they went in for service and were denied). I'm pretty sure Subaru in the US has done similar for WRX owners - very underhanded since many were given SCCA sign-up materials with the vehicles at purchase.

-Justin

[Nezz]

right-o, time for me to weigh in on this myself. We get the same spec as Japan does with the GTS vs. their GT, and we pay the same as they do. They have 5% consumption tax, we have 10%. And they ship our cars to us-- and we get satnav, and Japan does not unless they pay extra. The US gets a crappy spec, and -- please note -- there are an AWFUL LOT MORE CARS going to the US than here. We pay $5k more than the US for the same car (again, sort of, our GT is actually a little nicer), but we're getting an awful lot less of them.

If you completely throw economies of scale out the window, sure, we're being "horrendously ripped off". But as soon as you pull that into the equation our deal starts looking a lot better, and that's before you even consider the cost of doing business in this country.

Can someone explain to me how TMCA is ripping us off with this car?

PS; Horrendously ripped off? $4k out of $30k? ... don't remember the MX5?

[Nezz]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

1. this car is priced differently in different country right? gooood
2. yanks are paying much much less than us, right? about 10 k than gt base model. goood
3. The production costs are the same, for Au as well as US, right? Nothing different whatsoever.

If a rear wheel drive car was to be released at the same time with a much lower price tag, TMCA would've reconsidered their price.
Funny how reading through this post and much older posts people were complainig about Australia being ripped off and now is not true! WTF???

Alright, first and foremost we're paying $4k more than the yanks. Not ten. Don't count driveaway prices, MSRP certainly doesn't count sales tax in states with sales tax (they don't have a nationwide one, we do). Second, we get a better spec than the US does, even in our base models.

Third, you're forgetting economy of scale. It costs a lot less per unit to make a lot of something than a few, and Australia has an odd specification and some odd requirements. If we were identical to Japan, sure, but we're not.
EDIT; Even in Japan the G spec costs about the same as our GT, and the GT gets more speakers than the G...

Had to refute this, too. Think about the whole picture. (BRZ104 raises another interesting point-- competition. If we had a cheaper RWD car here, it's possible the GT spec would have been tooled down even further-- Say, to an equivalent of Japanese G spec, then with less trim and features, to drop the price a little more.)

[Nezz]

The biggest, most pressing question I'm seeing NONE of you asking is the one that matters the most.

Why the hell, given the enthusiast slant on the market here, did Australia not get the RC spec cars for $24k? ...

[tibsy92]

Originally Posted by Nezz

The biggest, most pressing question I'm seeing NONE of you asking is the one that matters the most.

Why the hell, given the enthusiast slant on the market here, did Australia not get the RC spec cars for $24k? ...

Maybe because the products weren't deemed to meet the standards of motor vehicles required when selling in this market? they didnt come with airbags did they? I dunno just a stab in the dark...

[RAN94A]

Originally Posted by Nezz

given the enthusiast slant on the market here, did Australia not get the RC spec cars for $24k? ...

enthusiast market does not = hardcore drift crowd wanting to make racecars...

given majority of aftermarket part manufacturers for 86 are in japan they can justify the stripped out model, cause parts are cheap and the scene is huge.

because the parts are more exxy to get over here it makes more sense to allow the ones who want to track/race this car to buy the GT and then just sell the parts they dont want on forums etc.

[Nezz]

Originally Posted by RAN94A

enthusiast market does not = hardcore drift crowd wanting to make racecars...

given majority of aftermarket part manufacturers for 86 are in japan they can justify the stripped out model, cause parts are cheap and the scene is huge.

because the parts are more exxy to get over here it makes more sense to allow the ones who want to track/race this car to buy the GT and then just sell the parts they dont want on forums etc.

Man, you know even if they didn't promote it and didn't comply the cars involved you could sell RCs for $24k. but yeah, true. Plus it'd hurt the brand image I suppose, because people have a thing about strippers here.

[Nezz]

Originally Posted by tibsy92

Maybe because the products weren't deemed to meet the standards of motor vehicles required when selling in this market? they didnt come with airbags did they? I dunno just a stab in the dark...

Retained airbags, but had no speakers, no stereo wiring / stereo (Stereo isn't standard in .JP anyway), no aircon, no leather touch surfaces, cheaper plastics and no panel on the front of the passenger dash, unpainted front and rear bumpers, unpainted wing mirrors, non-custom plain steel wheels with no wheel covers.

[uncivilised]

i would have purchased the rc spec if it were available in Australia.

because racecar.

[Nezz]

Originally Posted by uncivilised

i would have purchased the rc spec if it were available in Australia.

because racecar.

Damn Skippy!

[llama_au]

Originally Posted by Surok

its cheap for this market, and i would have paid 50k for it.

With no options I wouldn't have. With just the rear diffuser and floor mats ticked my BRZ will be coming in at $42,225 and no doubt once I start optioning the STI parts that are introduced it'll start blowing out. But I'm still okay with the price.