SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[vroom4]

Do it yourself, put the bolts in loose, loosen all your top strut bolts, push the top of the hub as far in as possible while someone tightens all the bolts. It will be neg 1.0-1.3 degrees.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by travisb

How maxed out is maxed out? Should I really ask for as much as I can get for a DD or is there are good target number to shoot for?

Try to get a much negative camber as you can. With the crash bolts you'll probably get between -.08 to -1.2 degrees of camber. You'll want as much camber as you can get from the crash bolts.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by vroom4

Do it yourself, put the bolts in loose, loosen all your top strut bolts, push the top of the hub as far in as possible while someone tightens all the bolts. It will be neg 1.0-1.3 degrees.

except that you'd need to adjust toe now, so off to the alignment rack you go..

[vroom4]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

except that you'd need to adjust toe now, so off to the alignment rack you go..

Yes, you would obviously do this before an alignment so you can see your numbers afterward and make sure something didn't go astray during install.

BUT, I had an alignment the day before, and the day after installing crash bolts and toe didn't change enough to even show up on rack.

[travisb]

Ok. I ordered two front camber bolts, part 90100039, and I should have them Friday. My plan was to have the tire shop install the bolts and do the alignment. At least that is how I did it for my Miata I used to have.

Would I still need to adjust the top like suggested above, or shouldn't they be able to get the camber now that they have the bolts?

[vroom4]

You can do it, or they can do it. You both will be doing it the same way except
1. They wont loosen the top strut bolts to nudge that extra 0.05 degree of negative out of it.
2. If you do it, you know its done right (or wrong depending on your level of mechanical aptitude)
3. Probably save 20 bucks if you do it.

[chucky12012]

Originally Posted by vroom4

Yes, you would obviously do this before an alignment so you can see your numbers afterward and make sure something didn't go astray during install.

BUT, I had an alignment the day before, and the day after installing crash bolts and toe didn't change enough to even show up on rack.

When I did it myself and had the alignment checked afterwards, I had no change in the toe as well.

[7thgear]

I haven't really looked at it, but that could only be possible if the tierod bolt is perfectly in line with the bottom (pivot) bolt of the upright,


if it is not, then toe WILL change with camber, this is simply a matter of geometry


laser racks are supposed to be super accurate, 1/32th or maybe even 1/64th... I'm skeptical as to the claim that there is ZERO change


but I didn't bother to document it so meh.... go with the flow I guess

[AlanLGuy]

As long as you don't loosen anything but the top strut bolts toe change would be absolutely minimal, with the suspension geometry you might get the least bit of toe in but probably not enough to noticeably change the handling of the car.

I personally installed the bolts myself and have not gotten an alignment since. Now I know several people have reported there alignment was quite a ways off from desired from the factory, so if you haven't got an alignment since you've owned the car, it may not be a bad idea to do it after you install the bolts.

Honestly though, on stock tires even if you get 1 degree of negative camber it's unlikely you will have noticeably faster times, especially given that it's the rear end that seems to give grip up first and not the front.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I haven't really looked at it, but that could only be possible if the tierod bolt is perfectly in line with the bottom (pivot) bolt of the upright,


if it is not, then toe WILL change with camber, this is simply a matter of geometry


laser racks are supposed to be super accurate, 1/32th or maybe even 1/64th... I'm skeptical as to the claim that there is ZERO change


but I didn't bother to document it so meh.... go with the flow I guess

The resulting toe change is completely negligible when we are talking about camber angle change via clevis attachment with OE crash bolts. you get bigger fluctuation when torquing down the jam nut on the tie rod.

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

Honestly though, on stock tires even if you get 1 degree of negative camber it's unlikely you will have noticeably faster times, especially given that it's the rear end that seems to give grip up first and not the front.

It's useful for the future when he goes to better tires. Also useful for extending the life of the tires. Camber (to a point) causes better, more even wear during an autocross.

[AlanLGuy]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

It's useful for the future when he goes to better tires. Also useful for extending the life of the tires. Camber (to a point) causes better, more even wear during an autocross.

True, but the stock tires are junk if you want to be competitive even locally and even with a better wear pattern, autocrossing on the stock tires will reduce the life substantially compared to daily driving and while they may not be as expensive as a set of 200TW tires they aren't exactly cheap either.

In general, for C-Street my recommended mod progression would roughly be:

- 200TW tires > preferably on a 2nd set of wheels
- front sway bar
- camber bolts
- upgraded brake pads
- aftermarket shocks

The FR-S especially needs a front bar to reduce the tendency to oversteer on high speed transitions compared to the BRZ

Last year I ran completely stock except for Z1 star specs, over winter I did crash bolts, a muffler delete, and switched to Rivals on a set of lightweight wheels and the car is significantly more tail happy than it was last year. Front bar is on order but until then trying to keep the rear end behind me in high speed transitions has been a little ridiculous.

With the Z1's I pretty much ran square pressure front to rear, with maybe 1psi lower in the fronts, the Rivals don't seem to like this as much, This weekend I ran about 3psi lower in the rears and that seemed to work better, but still fighting oversteer more than I'd like to be.

[Kido1986]

You're right about the competitiveness but it's great for someone with no experience to learn.

Learn on junk equipment and replace as needed. Bolts will help him wear these and all future tires better. Bolts are very cheap as well. Even with the alignment, you're under $100

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

True, but the stock tires are junk if you want to be competitive even locally and even with a better wear pattern, autocrossing on the stock tires will reduce the life substantially compared to daily driving and while they may not be as expensive as a set of 200TW tires they aren't exactly cheap either.

If the life of stock tires is an issue I would think that person would be better off not autoxing. My ex wife had crappy all seasons on her Sentra Spec V and did probably 20 autox events and a couple track days before there was any noticeable wear.

Ignoring money, if you don't want to toss tires that have life left in them (understandable), yeah, you might as well spend $15 on crash bolts. You'll want them eventually anyway, and you'll want all the camber they can give you.