Poor Sales of Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S Likely To Rule Out New Variants

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

...AND FOR HEAVEN SAKES THIS!




The U.S. loves this car! I'm sure the sales in Asia have been equally strong. Europe rarely has ever responded to Japanese coupes en masse. So the fact that one of Toyota's Euro's design directors is down on the Subaru power train and would like a BMW diesel is no surprise.

Strong initial demand. It will drop pretty good, but who cares? It's not going to limit my enjoyment of the car. Two of my favorite cars that I've ever owned had limited production runs. :shrug:

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by dnieves

You have a point but what is Nissan doing right with the Z?!?! They're great little cars despite being impractical two seaters, thirsty, and built by Nissan?

The Z is the Japanese equivalent to the muscle car. Same formula for keeping costs down.

Take the company V6 or V8 (Mustang 3.7L or 5.0L Coyote, for example), stuff it into the company's RWD sedan platform (Ford D2C or Chevy Zeta), re-skin it as a coupe, and presto. You've got a sporty car that's relatively cheap to develop and manufacture.

With the Z, it was the same process, except with Nissan's ubiquitous VQ engine and the corporate FM platform.

Now obviously I'm simplifying the development stream a lot, but that's the basic recipe. This kind of platform sharing creates synergies, reducing development and production costs. It also enables sports cars to benefit from economies of scale that they might not otherwise be able to share in. The Z might not be a great seller, but it's relatively cheap for Nissan to develop and produce. And so it lives on.

Coincidentally, this is also the reason Toyota has been so desperate to create other variants based on the GT86 platform (sedan, convertible, etc.) If they can create higher-volume variants of this platform, its likelihood of survival and evolution are much greater.

Unfortunately for us, there's not much demand for cheap, cramped, lightweight RWD sedans in the US.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by soundman98

to 'beat the rush' so to speak of what happens to popular sports cars after they are discontinued and everyone wishes the mfg had kept making them for 'x' number of years until they could afford to get one..

Oh, I thought you were disagreeing with me. That's why I bought one as well.

[jhstealth]

I think the car did and is doing well for what it is. I think Toyota should take the car for what It is, their sales aspirations should be based on the Miata, atleast for what's on the market right now.

[jblmr2]

So I have an MR2 Spyder the last sports car Toyota offered. It only sold 25k plus in 6 years of sales in the US. I wouldn't get to weirded out about the numbers. It's way to early to tell what Toyota will do.

[n0thing]

I'm still holding out for the 2015 release.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

So your argument to my point that "sports cars don't sell well over time" (disregarding pony cars) is to use two sedans and a super car?

Completely different target audiences. Subaru and Mitsubishi killed off the 2-door variants over a decade ago and the Skyline competes with the likes of 911's and Corvettes. Four doors and 3-4x the cost is enough to move those cars to entirely different segments in my mind.

The Toyobaru has it's own deficiencies like you pointed out with my examples, every car in this price range is a compromise and the 2-door sports cars (again disregarding pony cars) are a compromise that does not lead to consistent long term sales numbers. The only car in recent memory to disprove that is the NA Miata.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not singling out Japan here, I just can't think of a affordable comparable sports car that has come out of Europe. But let's check out the BMW 1 Series sales since it's inception:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

If it was your point that "sports cars" don't sell well over time you should not have included the rx8, due to the back seats and almost 4 doors(those little half doors) or compared them to the twins. And if we are talking about over time than it depends on the amount of time. Since you included the twins and the rx8 I assume we are now talking about sporty coupes/subcompacts. To my memory of the lancer, impreza, and even the skyline, were sporty coupes/family cars, I think the skyline was luxury sport, which were all reinvented again and again over the years till they are what they are now. If we have to disqualify a car that has changed chassis then yes, a car left unchanged over time will not sell well, Isn't that the reason for the updates? But if you take most of the sporty cars coming from Japan to the American market, they all have a long lineage. So they must have been selling well enough to continue to be made. For example, you have the 240z, which eventually made it up to the 370z. The 350z was made less than 15 years ago, and it got updates and continues to be sold, but now it is a 370z and can be loaded to the price point of a vette. And over the years a lot of these cars have had different trim packages to appeal to different aspects of the market. I see the twins in that market, not the "sports car" market. That's why I believe they have the ability to sell well over time, with the right options and upgrades.

I personally think they would sell more if it had more power. I mean why buy a car that is more cramped, has less storage space, sub par power, and who's major benefit of agility is hampered by crappy factory tires, and even then can't even really be used on the street? Power is experienced more often by more drivers, and is a much larger selling point, why buy a sporty subcompact that can be out accelerated by a minivan? When you can get a v6 mustang that beats it in every other class for the same or lower price, and has similar gas mileage, and doesn't require more expensive premium? I am making more torque and slightly lower hp in my stock 22 year old 2.4L 240sx, NA, no VVT, no direct injection, no extremely high compression. Toyota couldn't have offered a 2.5L option?

[CyberFormula]

Too expensive
Is the reason why it doesn't fly.

People can buy something else practical and fun for less money.

In addition the twins are not exactly good lookers. I do like the brz ts though.

I believe the toyota 86 will survive

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Anybody who thought this would follow a different trend from any other Japanese sports car built in the last fifteen years is delusional.

i.e. S2000, Miata, RX8

I hope it follows Miata and continues produce several thousand every year.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

Too expensive
Is the reason why it doesn't fly.

People can buy something else practical and fun for less money.

In addition the twins are not exactly good lookers. I do like the brz ts though.

I believe the toyota 86 will survive

WwwTF are you talking about?

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

WwwTF are you talking about?

It's OK, he might think the Eiffel Tower is in Las Vegas, too.

[CyberFormula]

You can go for an s2000 for the price of a used or new frs. If the buyer is serious about grassroots they would go for another car.

The point is if you buy an frs you really want the car because it means something to you. Not because it is a great buy

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Target70

That's why I believe they have the ability to sell well over time, with the right options and upgrades.

I'm going to bite my tongue and spare the internet another pointless argument on semantics.

Bottom line is only time will tell. I would be surprised if the Toyobaru does better than the Z, it's already doing better than the RX8. I stand by my statement that it was crazy to think this would buck the trend exhibited by all sports cars that aren't pony cars and I stand by my examples.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

[LadyFRZ]

Hey, this could mean more time for them to find an end all be all for crickets since they are not busy with variants.



...... who the hell am I kidding. interested what this means for the future of the car, especially with the new competition coming.