BRZ comes last in EVO group test

[blu_]

That shouldn't be too shocking. It does mean the bottom end design isn't fundamentally lacking though.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by 86'd

If anything this makes me want to get a FR-S now.

It sucks getting the hype deflated but we all know this car isn't for everyone, much like the S2000 it's going to cater to certain people. It's how everything comes together.

Now I know why Honda didn't really update the S2000 too much, and only gained a slight bit of TQ in 2004.

I hope that Subaru does the same, and doesn't go crazy trying to appeal to a minority that won't ever buy this car anyway.

FR-S reviews are going out late next week, hopefully we won't be disappointed.

But the thing is you can still probably get a BRZ cheaper than a FR-S...if people tend to like the FR-S better...

[Sport-Tech]

^ Highly doubtful - even if the FR-S handles a bit better, the additional amenities and buyer badge snobbery will favour the BRZ.

[Subaruwrxfan]

Originally Posted by Lighting Red

It's your choice what you get, and who the hell I'm I to dictate what other people buy, but... Convertible? And ruin what inherently makes this car so desirable? I am cool with a power bump, as long as the increase in mass is within reason, but to buy a fundamentally flawed version of a perfectly good car seems wrong.

Then again, I have never owned a convertible. All those people who do own one may be onto something.

You know that the Subaru engineers designed this car with a convertible version in mind right? They are planning on making one, and I don't think it will change the character of the car.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

That is your opinion right there. But I remember seeing the 370Z beating those other cars in testing all over the place especially in Top Gear when Jeremy said it was more fun to drive and involving than the Z4 35.

You could be right. Well that is not my opinion, just the result a german reviews, and usuallly they are negative about japanese car. In fact I hat hate the Audi TT, even the TT-RS, and find the Z4 weighing 1600 kg way too heavy to be fun, all this because of its retractable hardtop.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

^ Highly doubtful - even if the FR-S handles a bit better, the additional amenities and buyer badge snobbery will favour the BRZ.

If the FR-S can pull a 6.0 secs 0 to 60...it's over for the BRZ...people will gravitate towards the FR-S over the BRZ. Even though I think the BRZ is the better deal.

Badge snobbery over Scion vs Subaru is made up. People will get over it if the car is good. The FR-S will either make or break Scion.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

If the FR-S can pull a 6.0 secs 0 to 60...it's over for the BRZ...people will gravitate towards the FR-S over the BRZ. Even though I think the BRZ is the better deal.

Badge snobbery over Scion vs Subaru is made up. People will get over it if the car is good. The FR-S will either make or break Scion.

It's not that much lighter.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by tripjammer;189068[B

]If the FR-S can pull a 6.0 secs 0 to 60[/B]...it's over for the BRZ...people will gravitate towards the FR-S over the BRZ. Even though I think the BRZ is the better deal.

Badge snobbery over Scion vs Subaru is made up. People will get over it if the car is good. The FR-S will either make or break Scion.

Can I have three reasons as to how this could happen? Max outputs are the same, gear ratio's are the same, and the driver makes up a bigger weight difference than the make he is in. In short it aint happening.

[MmmHamSandwich]

It amuses me how much weight some people seem to think a pair of ballasts and a gps head unit will add.

When Scion finally releases the official curb weight for the FR-S my guess is those same folks are going to find it is a lot closer to the BRZ than they hoped.

If people were going to nit pick over tiny differences I'd think more folks would be scrapping over the BRZ being .6 inches shorter! Oh my gosh now the BRZ is totally worth it!!

They're basically the same damn car aside from options, aesthetics, and price. The only real performance difference will likely be auto vs manual and the differences in suspension tuning.

[JohnnyR]

Very interesting article. I assumed as much all along. In order to get this thing to shine you have to drive it like you would any car on a closed track, defeating it's purpose there as more powerful variants will win out each time. Having to keep it revved out on open roads to have the fun, that's not good, but expected due to the anemic powerplant they stuffed into there. So much for "I'd rather have a fun car you don't have to drive at it's limits to enjoy" arguments.

It's obvious at this point that the chassis is overbuilt and it has an vastly underpowered engine. The numbers this car pulls stock is incredible considering the horrible tires they have on it stock. Just a decent set of tires will make the numbers jump alone. But once again it all falls back on the main suspect of the car, it's motor, and it's not up to snuff.

I expect this car to be turbo/sc from the factory next year from the heat they're taking on the wheezing motor. If not, then it just shows how out of touch they are. Aftermarket will supply FI, no doubts, but when going to FI from a bleeding edged compression NA motor in which no one knows how well built it is, I wouldn't risk it. I think in many's best interests, they should wait for next year.

[sysfailur]

Lemme sum this up... auto transmission and prius tire fail. I am not worried a bit. I'll be throwing on some proper wheels/tires as soon as the car arrives. Let's not forget the possibility of adding extra power with an intake/exhaust and tune.

[Oriental Life]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

I said it before and I'll say it again. This car needs a 2.5L engine.

Its not going to happen. Subaru doesn't have a hybrid platform just yet and its average MPG across the brand is not that great. They have to go with 2.0L and 1.6L in most new smaller models and through a turbo on it to meet EPA requirements.

I'm glad BRZ escaped that route.

[Lighting Red]

Originally Posted by Subaruwrxfan

You know that the Subaru engineers designed this car with a convertible version in mind right? They are planning on making one, and I don't think it will change the character of the car.

Certain aspects of what defines the BRZ's character, such as steering rack speed, more than likely will not change. On that level I agree with you.

Where I completely disagree with you is with your assertion that the character of the car (in this case meaning the overriding character traits of the BRZ) as defined by the BRZ's low weight and low Cg will not be altered. Even though you did not define the overall character as such, I think we can both agree those two attributes truly define the car, and all the other sub-traits fall from there.

Besides adding a nice panaramic view of the environment, convertible tops (hard or soft) do two things to a cars: add complexity, and add weight relatively high on the car. Convertible top cars also suffer from reduced rigidity, especially when compared to solid roofed counterparts. To overcome this, convertibles require additional material added to the frame in the form of structural members in order to gain back some measure of lost rigidity. Without belaboring the point, all these factors contribute towards undermining the two major attributes that make the BRZ a, well... a BRZ.

I have a feeling I am not saying anything new to you, or most other members on the BRZ side of the house (the kids on the FR-S side might be a different story ). Basically even if Subaru designed this car from the get-go to also support a convertible top variant, unless they extensively employ exotic materials throughout the top's construction, I do not see how the driving experience and performance of the base car will not be negatively affected. Then again... I suspect people who buy convertibles generally do not car all that much about the performance.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Lighting Red

Then again... I suspect people who buy convertibles generally do not car all that much about the performance.

Boxster S. Amazing performance. Though...I'd probably get a Cayman R instead.