Scion VP on Jalopnik

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Braces

Here's the reality. The future plans for the FR-S were developed BEFORE the car was ever built. If this is a one and done model ... then that was the original plan REGARDLESS of what people may want. Manufacturers just don't willy nilly decide to make a convertible because people may want it. If it wasn't designed from the get go ... it isn't going to happen.

Talking to a dude at Scion who has not lied to me in the past. Said he heard via the grapevine the FR-S will be a one-and-done. Don't care either way, I have one.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Talking to a dude at Scion who has not lied to me in the past. Said he heard via the grapevine the FR-S will be a one-and-done. Don't care either way, I have one.

Wish they would tell us soon then before I clock several 100K miles!

[DAEMANO]

Gonna repost this just because it took me some time to type it and I think it fits in with a lot of what that Scion VP said (sorry about the repost).

North American Model Year 2017 Refresh. Rest of world gets some of this in 2016, but the big news will be Scion moving to multiple trim levels per vehicle to improve margins and offer audience features missing from the single model. Base model becomes "Sport" model. "Performance and "Touring" models added to sit above base. Weight remains unchanged in the base model 2700 lbs.

"Sport" (base) model gets:
1. Revised front and rear fascia. Softer edges, no more fangs, less aggressive headlamp shape. More modern treatments all around.
2. Revised HIDs and LED lighting to go with the new bumpers standard
3. No Automatic transmission offered.
4. Max Performance summer tires on revised wheels
5. Cricket-free fuel pump
6. Reduced torque dip
7. 10-15 more HP at the crank (now 210-215 stock)

"Performance" model gets (all Sport model+) +$4-$5k over base
1. More aggressive front and rear fascia than Sport or Touring model
2. UHP Summer tires on +1 wheel upgrade (18")
3. TRD and/or STi BBK
4. OEM Short shifter kit
5. Faux CF trim in cabin
6. Revised steering wheel
7. Shift knob
8. OEM AOS / Catch can
9. OEM Oil cooler
10. 25 more HP at the crank (now 225 stock)
11. Loud paint
12. Badges

"Touring" Model gets + $4k price over base
1. Automatic Transmission only
2. Sound tube delete
3. A LOT of additional sound insulation
4. Leather interior
5. Dual zone climate
6. All Season tires on softer suspension
7. Pearl paint with even more pearl shit
8. Chrome
9. Understeer

[tennisfreak]

@DAEMANO

Is that from a credible source or is it some kind of wish list?

If it pans out sounds pretty nice.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

@DAEMANO

Is that from a credible source or is it some kind of wish list?

If it pans out sounds pretty nice.

Nope that all came out of my ass (sounds appealing, no?). Actually it came from closely following everything said by Toyota, Subaru, and Scion execs and the auto industry as a whole for the past 30 years (yes, I'm old).

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Nope that all came out of my ass (sounds appealing, no?). Actually it came from closely following everything said by Toyota, Subaru, and Scion execs and the auto industry as a whole for the past 30 years (yes, I'm old).

Unfortunately the auto industry of 30 years ago (I am old as well) no longer exists as of 2008 or so. The days of multiple options for a niche vehicle like this are long gone I am afraid.

Now, if they were selling 100K units a year of the base we may see one or two other trim levels but they aren't and we won't.
I know, I know, but they have them in Japan! Yes they do, and they do not have to meet multiple different standards, pay export/import fees or incur huge shipping costs so it is economically feasible.

Every single little impact to an assembly line costs money so even if they did make them for here then your ass (BTW do you have an ass to print app I have never heard about cuz I could use that) would be way out in left field with the $4000 extra price tag.

[Shark_Bait88]

I'm gonna have to agree with @Tcoat

I don't see them offering multiple trim levels on the car, beyond what they've done so far with the "special edition" models. I highly doubt a lot of the mods you've listed too.

Particularly:
-Any HP increases: at least not on a base/"sport" model. Maybe, maybe, on a higher trim model (if they were to go that route), but I still do not expect to see that.
-BBK: It'd be adding unnecessary costs to production and the final price. This car, without a fairly decent bump in power, does not need better brakes. Could it use them? Sure, but that's what aftermarket upgrades are for.
-Lack of an automatic transmission at any trim level: In this day and age, that simply won't happen. They would never sell enough, especially at an entry level model. There aren't enough manual drivers out there; particularly younger (read as: more likely to purchase a base model) manual drivers.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

I'm gonna have to agree with @Tcoat

I don't see them offering multiple trim levels on the car, beyond what they've done so far with the "special edition" models. I highly doubt a lot of the mods you've listed too.

Particularly:
-Any HP increases: at least not on a base/"sport" model. Maybe, maybe, on a higher trim model (if they were to go that route), but I still do not expect to see that.
-BBK: It'd be adding unnecessary costs to production and the final price. This car, without a fairly decent bump in power, does not need better brakes. Could it use them? Sure, but that's what aftermarket upgrades are for.
-.

This line made me think of something that I don't remember seeing anybody mention before!
Toyota/Subaru made a big deal about sharing the cars specs with the aftermarket before the car even was released. They even went so far as providing technical drawings to the major parts producers. Their statement at the time was that they wanted to encourage the aftermarket industry to fully support this platform! This is why the aftermarket was ready so quickly after the cars first release.
Now in hind sight that would have been a suicidal business plan if they had ever intended to do upgrades now wouldn't it?

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This line made me think of something that I don't remember seeing anybody mention before!
Toyota/Subaru made a big deal about sharing the cars specs with the aftermarket before the car even was released. They even went so far as providing technical drawings to the major parts producers. Their statement at the time was that they wanted to encourage the aftermarket industry to fully support this platform! This is why the aftermarket was ready so quickly after the cars first release.
Now in hind sight that would have been a suicidal business plan if they had ever intended to do upgrades now wouldn't it?

Excellent point.

I know they made a point more than once to mention that they expected a portion of owners to modify the cars, and that they were designed with that in mind.

[tahdizzle]

You two are big ol hippies!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

You two are big ol hippies!

Well I do work in Woodstock half the week!

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Unfortunately the auto industry of 30 years ago (I am old as well) no longer exists as of 2008 or so. The days of multiple options for a niche vehicle like this are long gone I am afraid.

Now, if they were selling 100K units a year of the base we may see one or two other trim levels but they aren't and we won't.
I know, I know, but they have them in Japan! Yes they do, and they do not have to meet multiple different standards, pay export/import fees or incur huge shipping costs so it is economically feasible.

Every single little impact to an assembly line costs money so even if they did make them for here then your ass (BTW do you have an ass to print app I have never heard about cuz I could use that) would be way out in left field with the $4000 extra price tag.

Hahaha still speculation is what it is. To address all these curmudgeonations (I made that word up). So look...

Nobody said the auto industry was the same as 30 years ago. The note was 30 years of observation helped lead to those speculative conclusions. See the diff? The question was about where all this was coming from. I'm curious about why you post as fact that 100k volume is when trim levels become available. I'm pretty sure I could find at least a dozen cars sold in North America with lower volume and multiple trim lines.

Speaking of which, the '86 has multiple trim levels in nearly every market BUT North America (where it's sold as a Scion), not just Japan. All of Europe, Australia and even Africa have '86 trim levels. The limiting factor doesn't seem to be cost but rather Scion's marketing approach.

$4000 = a target not a quote. Once again speculation. Don't know where you got quote from.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

I'm gonna have to agree with @Tcoat

I don't see them offering multiple trim levels on the car, beyond what they've done so far with the "special edition" models. I highly doubt a lot of the mods you've listed too.

Particularly:
-Any HP increases: at least not on a base/"sport" model. Maybe, maybe, on a higher trim model (if they were to go that route), but I still do not expect to see that.
-BBK: It'd be adding unnecessary costs to production and the final price. This car, without a fairly decent bump in power, does not need better brakes. Could it use them? Sure, but that's what aftermarket upgrades are for.
-Lack of an automatic transmission at any trim level: In this day and age, that simply won't happen. They would never sell enough, especially at an entry level model. There aren't enough manual drivers out there; particularly younger (read as: more likely to purchase a base model) manual drivers.

Getting an extra 10 WHP out of this car is very easy. Getting 10 BHP even easier. Emissions, and MPG definitely matter, still I have the most confidence in this happening for the refreshed model.

Forcing buyers to step up a trim level (or to buy optional equipment) to get an AT is a time honored auto industry practice. You're right though, it might be sacrificing buyers to go this route. However I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Hahaha still speculation is what it is. To address all these curmudgeonations (I made that word up, can you tell). So look

Nobody said the auto industry was the same as 30 years ago. The note was 30 years of observation leads to the speculation. See the diff? The question was about where all this was coming from. I'm curious about why you post as fact that 100k volume is when trim levels become available. I'm pretty sure I could find at least a dozen cars sold in North America with lower volume and multiple trim lines.

Speaking of which, the '86 has multiple trim levels in nearly every market BUT North America (where it's sold as a Scion), not just Japan. All of Europe, Australia and even Africa have '86 trim levels. The limiting factor doesn't seem to be cost but rather Scion's marketing approach.

$4000 = a target not a quote. Once again speculation. Don't know where you got quote from.

Love the new word! You should copy write that if it isn't already too late.
I get where you are coming from and don't totally disagree but want to make sure that the counter point is kept visible as well.

The 100K came for the same place as your list of upgrades did (found that ass writer app in other words) and was used just to continue the point. I am not privy to how many they would need to sell. Like you said speculation is exactly that and facts can have very little to do with it.


Yes the 86 has different trim levels in other countries but it is not because it is marketed as Scion here that we don't get them it is because of the North American companies and the clout they still have. The import tariffs and penalties that the Japanese companies have to pay to sell their cars are huge and they have to sell enough to make up for them. I am sure that if the base sales here had been spectacular they would feel it warranted the other already existing trim levels and we would have got them. Unfortunately, although the sales are good they are far from spectacular. If Toyota thought they could make a buck at it we would already have the same choices that the rest of the world has and not have to wait until they come up with a revamped version.


As much as I would love to see you be right on the bulls eye I just don't believe that it is in Toyota/Subaru's plans.