Intake Shootout! Injen vs AFE vs AVO vs AiRaid vs STOCK! - Page 7 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

brichard0625 · 10-11-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foobar

Uh, that ain't red, bro

I dunno why my phone does that to the colors but heres a better pic..

Ravenlokk · 10-11-2012, 01:36 PM

The recent string of poor dyno results for the AIRAID intake make me sad

. Great company, great customer service, but apparently not so great for gaining power lol. Oh well, for now it still looks good, sounds good, and it was cheap... Perhaps it will do better with a tune later on :P

AIRAID · 10-11-2012, 01:47 PM

These are certainly interesting results, but they just don’t add up. With all due respect to the OP, we take issue with the following:

1. It doesn’t look like the long term fuel trims had been established for our intake system. We are basing this on the extremely rich AFR, especially on the 4th gear run. It’s not surprising that it lost power- it’s below 10:1 at 6600 RPM. The test vehicle averaged 12:1 on the baseline runs. Our kit would never run this fat when the vehicle is properly acclimated. Besides losing a noticeable amount of power, this would also result extremely poor fuel economy. This would be a direct contradiction to the increased MPG claims of many of our current users.

2. There’s no way to compare dyno runs against each over a 4 week period and expect to come up with valid data. We could show similar variances in power on a single stock vehicle from morning to afternoon, let alone over a month. When testing these cars, you’re really splitting hairs with bolt on parts. The wider your test spread, the less accurate your data.

3. We’ve sold over a hundred of these systems to date without issue. How would anyone NOT notice a 10% power loss after installing our intake on their daily driver?

4. There seems to be confusion as to whether or not the ECU was reset with each test. If the ECU was not reset and the vehicle was not given enough time to establish long-term fuel maps, this would explain the results.

It takes highly accurate equipment to measure the small gains produced by bolt-on parts on these engines. We use a Mustang AWD -500 series. This Eddy Current dyno applies a road/vehicle load simulation during the test. This load applied is very critical on today’s more sophisticated fuel systems. Proper fuel delivery is based off of load calculations with input from the mass air meter, TPS, and or MAP.

We also invest hundreds of hours of R&D into every intake kit we develop. We have tested this particular kit on several different cars, including our own, during development and well into production. We have consistently produced the numbers that we claim, and we stand behind them. On this particular kit, as with all of our kits, we published fair, average horsepower and torque numbers, not the max we saw from one test. We’re not in the business of selling products that don’t work as claimed; those that do aren’t around for very long.

When taken as a whole, these results simply do not add up and contradict not only our own tests, but those of other customers and consumers.

2forme · 10-11-2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AIRAID

3. We’ve sold over a hundred of these systems to date without issue. How would anyone NOT notice a 10% power loss after installing our intake on their daily driver?

Guess I don't count....

brichard0625 · 10-11-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2forme

Guess I don't count....

lmao

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ab8BOu4LE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ab8BOu4LE[/ame]

ATL BRZ · 10-11-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AIRAID

When taken as a whole, these results simply do not add up and contradict not only our own tests, but those of other customers and consumers.

Thank you!

2forme · 10-11-2012, 02:31 PM

The point is this isn't the first time people haven't made any power with the airaid. Seeing as how they deny people had problems with their system, I'm more inclined to believe the customers than the manufacturer.

Drift-Office · 10-11-2012, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2forme

The point is this isn't the first time people haven't made any power with the airaid. Seeing as how they deny people had problems with their system, I'm more inclined to believe the customers than the manufacturer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2forme

Guess I don't count....

... or this guy :

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17379

He had the snorkel removed, ECU reset and re-flashed, more air piped in, similar results.

I need to collate some more data before I post a response, stay tuned...

Regards,

Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

2forme · 10-11-2012, 04:39 PM

@Drift-Office - Bob, if you want to see any of my log files, let me know. I have log files of everything. Stock, Intake, Intake/Exhaust, e85. You name it.

TAP Auto Parts · 10-11-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2forme

Guess I don't count....

We know you have had problems with the system (Thats why Airaid went to Visconti in the first place, because of you sharing your results, they take your issues very seriously) - but overwhelming majority did not experience the same thing you did - there are also bone stock cars experiencing the similar problems to what you had.

2forme · 10-11-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAP Auto

We know you have had problems with the system (Thats why Airaid went to Visconti in the first place, because of you sharing your results, they take your issues very seriously) - but overwhelming majority did not experience the same thing you did - there are also bone stock cars experiencing the similar problems to what you had.

That's why there was a thread created by people other than myself pertaining to those issues? No, I wasn't the ONLY one.

And if it was a problem with my car, why did the aFe work flawlessly?

TAP Auto Parts · 10-11-2012, 05:25 PM

I dont know. Why does the Airaid work flawlessly on some cars, and others had problems with the aFe? How come some see gains with the Injen, and on others cars it bogs. That is what we are all trying to figure out

2forme · 10-11-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAP Auto

I dont know. Why does the Airaid work flawlessly on some cars, and others had problems with the aFe? How come some see gains with the Injen, and on others cars it bogs. That is what we are all trying to figure out

Gnomes. Pesky bastards.

TAP Auto Parts · 10-11-2012, 05:46 PM

Serious gnomes man - I hear you. I will say you have been awesome for putting in all the work/time to test these things and keeping it cool.

10-11-2012, 01:47 PM	#87
AIRAID Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: FR-S Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 78 Thanks: 38 Thanked 109 Times in 50 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The Airaid Position These are certainly interesting results, but they just don’t add up. With all due respect to the OP, we take issue with the following: 1. It doesn’t look like the long term fuel trims had been established for our intake system. We are basing this on the extremely rich AFR, especially on the 4th gear run. It’s not surprising that it lost power- it’s below 10:1 at 6600 RPM. The test vehicle averaged 12:1 on the baseline runs. Our kit would never run this fat when the vehicle is properly acclimated. Besides losing a noticeable amount of power, this would also result extremely poor fuel economy. This would be a direct contradiction to the increased MPG claims of many of our current users. 2. There’s no way to compare dyno runs against each over a 4 week period and expect to come up with valid data. We could show similar variances in power on a single stock vehicle from morning to afternoon, let alone over a month. When testing these cars, you’re really splitting hairs with bolt on parts. The wider your test spread, the less accurate your data. 3. We’ve sold over a hundred of these systems to date without issue. How would anyone NOT notice a 10% power loss after installing our intake on their daily driver? 4. There seems to be confusion as to whether or not the ECU was reset with each test. If the ECU was not reset and the vehicle was not given enough time to establish long-term fuel maps, this would explain the results. It takes highly accurate equipment to measure the small gains produced by bolt-on parts on these engines. We use a Mustang AWD -500 series. This Eddy Current dyno applies a road/vehicle load simulation during the test. This load applied is very critical on today’s more sophisticated fuel systems. Proper fuel delivery is based off of load calculations with input from the mass air meter, TPS, and or MAP. We also invest hundreds of hours of R&D into every intake kit we develop. We have tested this particular kit on several different cars, including our own, during development and well into production. We have consistently produced the numbers that we claim, and we stand behind them. On this particular kit, as with all of our kits, we published fair, average horsepower and torque numbers, not the max we saw from one test. We’re not in the business of selling products that don’t work as claimed; those that do aren’t around for very long. When taken as a whole, these results simply do not add up and contradict not only our own tests, but those of other customers and consumers.

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10-11-2012, 01:36 PM	#86
Ravenlokk Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 Raven FR-S Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 265 Thanks: 34 Thanked 68 Times in 47 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The recent string of poor dyno results for the AIRAID intake make me sad . Great company, great customer service, but apparently not so great for gaining power lol. Oh well, for now it still looks good, sounds good, and it was cheap... Perhaps it will do better with a tune later on :P

10-11-2012, 05:25 PM	#96
TAP Auto Parts Banned Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: FRS Location: Las Vegas Posts: 303 Thanks: 442 Thanked 104 Times in 74 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I dont know. Why does the Airaid work flawlessly on some cars, and others had problems with the aFe? How come some see gains with the Injen, and on others cars it bogs. That is what we are all trying to figure out

10-11-2012, 05:46 PM	#98
TAP Auto Parts Banned Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: FRS Location: Las Vegas Posts: 303 Thanks: 442 Thanked 104 Times in 74 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Serious gnomes man - I hear you. I will say you have been awesome for putting in all the work/time to test these things and keeping it cool.

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