Combating the heat

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I find that hard to believe. The oil cooler is on the car and is not mounted in the "stack" it is side mounted and has its own fresh air supply by the fog light hole. Having to utilize a cooling fan while at speed on the track sounds more like a bandaid for an improperly placed or speced radiator. I think the ultimate problem here at speed is too much hot air in the engine compartment and it doesn't matter what fan is on there or how much MPH of air is coming through it if it has no where to go.

The ultimate goal is to dissipate the heat. Increasing surface area didn't solve the problem, and added more resistance. My suggestion is to now increase the flow.

The combination of surface area and airflow is what results in heat dissipation, and they work somewhat manipulatively.

[King Tut]

You can work on the adjustments of that pipe and have it not sit on the radiator hose. Mine was pretty close, but it wasn't touching it.

[toekneehair]

I have to agree with King Tut. I don't think it is just a fan issue. I think it's the radiant heat that is getting stuck in the engine bay. A better fan would assist a little though when boosting on curvy roads while not actually getting the speeds as high.
@King Tut the cowel that you were talking about is that the plastic piece below the windshield wipers?

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The ultimate goal is to dissipate the heat. Increasing surface area didn't solve the problem, and added more resistance. My suggestion is to now increase the flow.

The combination of surface area and airflow is what results in heat dissipation, and they work somewhat manipulatively.

I completely agree with you on that. I am just not sure that at speed a better fan will pull more air across the surface area then the air that is being pushed through it in a BRZ application. Another possible issue is that with the intercooler piping and intercooler in place the factory designed air routing to the radiator has been compromised. Going with an aftermarket radiator can further compromise that as the factory radiator has foam pieces on it to help seal it off and make sure the air gets directed across the surface area of the radiator and not past it. So an additional solution could be to make some panels in front of the radiator that insures the air gets channeled to the radiator and not past it at speed.

[toekneehair]

I think I have to raise up the FMIC and the bumper a little still. I made the adjustments like the build told me to but I don't think it was high enough. maybe raising the whole thing up 1/2 an inch might allow for the pipe to be raised a little as well.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by toekneehair

I have to agree with King Tut. I don't think it is just a fan issue. I think it's the radiant heat that is getting stuck in the engine bay. A better fan would assist a little though when boosting on curvy roads while not actually getting the speeds as high.
@King Tut the cowel that you were talking about is that the plastic piece below the windshield wipers?

I can never remember exactly what they modified, but they are a member on here and posted about how they fixed the issue on their car because the video Matt Farah did for them had the car overheating after a couple laps. I will see if I can find it.

[toekneehair]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I completely agree with you on that. I am just not sure that at speed a better fan will pull more air across the surface area then the air that is being pushed through it in a BRZ application. Another possible issue is that with the intercooler piping and intercooler in place the factory designed air routing to the radiator has been compromised. Going with an aftermarket radiator can further compromise that as the factory radiator has foam pieces on it to help seal it off and make sure the air gets directed across the surface area of the radiator and not past it. So an additional solution could be to make some panels in front of the radiator that insures the air gets channeled to the radiator and not past it at speed.

Now that is a great idea use a shroud behind the radiator with fans to direct the airflow but also design a few shrouds in front to catch stray air and direct it through the radiator. ugh now I have to pull off the front bumper for sure so I can look into spacing and it was such a pain to get on lol.

[King Tut]

Found it:

Originally Posted by VCMC-STC

Hey guys,

Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner, spent the day at the track.

The heat issue was solved by ducting away heat better and upgrading the stock rad.

From stock there is quite a bit of plastic around the windshield wiper area, we removed this and saw a big improvement in heat dissipation.

Of course upgrading the radiator was a massive piece of the puzzle. In the /Drive video there were a few reasons working against us other than limited testing time. Mainly it was about 20 deg (c) hotter in at the track than in Canada at the time. While it was a shame we had a heat issue that day, he could do 5 hot laps before 1 cool down and back at it for another 5 laps. Which realistically makes it more that capable for any street driving.

That being said, today at track, it was 15 deg (c) and I did numerous sessions, each over 15 minutes and not once did the needle move above 1/4 on the gauge.

Just like the Team VCMC FR-S, the Fullblown kit keeps improving and good golly its quick :P

If you guys have any other questions about our car, the turbo, whatever, I'd be happy to respond!

Richard

[Gen]

Originally Posted by King Tut

You are discussing two different issues. If you are overheating at speed then it doesn't matter what fans you have whether OEM or slim. The cooling fans are only designed to keep the car cool while in low speed situations where there is no air flowing through the front of the radiator. If your car is overheating at speed even with all these additional cooling devices I would look to make sure it is properly bled. I know the solution for the race car that was running the Full Blown kit was to modify the cowel to vent the hot air towards the windshield.

I know this sounds stupid, but I would make sure your cooling system is properly bled and that the fans are pulling air and not pushing air.

Yes, yes I am discussing two different issues. It gets pretty hot both when being pushed and at idle.

[CSG Mike]

Have you guys played with aftermarket fans at all? Pressure is the important factor here. It'll mitigate most of the losses of stacking. You can also change the positioning of the FMIC a bit as well.

With the given restrictions, we're looking at something like a 5x increase in airflow with the fan. This also promotes airflow OUT of the engine bay via the outlets in the rear/bottom...

Just sayin', cuz this has worked for us.


Oh, and uh... we've melted (stock) fans that were in proximity to hot turbos/piping before...

[pmccut]

I need to try something before my next track day. Very interested in someone showing that the fans make a difference. The clearance between the turbo/downpipe worries me as well seeing how little room there is for anything bigger than the slim fans.
@King Tut - nice find on the VCMC car. I need to see how much I can easily take off around that area.

[Element Tuning]

I never had any issues on the street or on the dyno in terms of operating temps. Max power 400whp (baseline 153 whp).

Element Tuning Hydra EMS
FA20Club 60T turbo kit (header wrap and turbo cover)
Full Blown Radiator (oem fans and shroud)
90% water and water wetter
AC condenser in place
E85

Ok so when I was NA and racing even with oem radiator I never had issues even in 90+ f. In boosted trim we did have problems but they may have been mostly due to a pin hole leak in the radiator. When I first raced my boosted setup at NJMP at around 350whp I can say I had real issues but it did get warm but nothing dangerous. At the next two races we overheated into the red on every session and that's when we got desperate.



Most of it's common sense and the grill opening is very smal almost every inch covered by the FMIC, and the engine bay pretty sealed up. We also have an extended diffuser. We ditched the skid plate which gave us more exit volume. We cut a hole in the hood and added a gurney. We also cut holes in the bumper skin above the bumper beam (they needed to be bigger but that's what we had at the track). We also pulled the rubber seal at the wiper tray. All of this helped but one thing hurt us at one point and that was a cut through fendet liner. Do not underestimate how much pressure that will pump into your engine bay. Fix it or make new liners for bigger wheels etc.

In the end we found a pinhole leak in the radiator that only surfaced under racing conditions. At the track fix was "stop leak" and it appeared to have settled engine temp but then boom and she caught on fire as most know.

From my experience with cooling issues like this in general, the rad volume is just too little for 400+hp under racing conditions and their is too little entry volume of airflow. To improve flow you have to dump pressure out of the hood. Get more air to the radiator and you may have to cut bumper vents (you can do it nicer than I did). For fans its hard to beat the oem and shrouding for street and I bet for many your slim fans are worse (seen it many times). To run slim you need a shroud and you need some high dollar, super high cfm units, to do the trick.

Nothing off the shelf will do the trick for what we have planned for our FRS next season.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[Dipstik-sportech]

E85 runs considerably cooler than pump gas, that's probably why you've never had an issue. I'm going to try a different fan setup and if I can find a decent one a vented hood.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[taylork057]

ducting is key, keep air moving though the radiator, not around it. Get creative.