Top Gear Magazine Review of Subaru BRZ and Toyota GT86

[Alfie]

[m_life]

Originally Posted by Lordharding

I wil imagine lots of people are like me in the uk ,take delivery of a new BRZ in summer or wait a bit longer

Or they will buy the 86 like me.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by m_life

Or they will buy the 86 like me.

I'll buy from whichever brand offers the better deal, because underneath the badge I know they are both developed, engineered and built by Subaru.

Shame on Toyota for trying to suggest otherwise.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by coyote

I'll buy from whichever brand offers the better deal, because underneath the badge I know they are both developed, engineered and built by Subaru.

Shame on Toyota for trying to suggest otherwise.

Let the flame wars begin again.

[Kunzite]

Are you sure about that? I'd rather say Toyota was actively participating in developing the car, even if the result is (technically) mostly Subaru. Otherwise we would be looking at another Impreza.

Top Gear's articles are afaik the only ones that promotes these ideas (that Subaru did everything important - Toyota being only responsible for some lousy styling, and that Toyota tried hard to tell otherwise). And because they seem anything but impartial, I don't trust them on this matter.
They even admitted to be "paraphrasing". Does anyone have another source, with such claims made by Toyota?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Kunzite

Are you sure about that? I'd rather say Toyota was actively participating in developing the car, even if the result is (technically) mostly Subaru. Otherwise we would be looking at another Impreza.

Top Gear's articles are afaik the only ones that promotes these ideas (that Subaru did everything important - Toyota being only responsible for some lousy styling, and that Toyota tried hard to tell otherwise). And because they seem anything but impartial, I don't trust them on this matter.
They even admitted to be "paraphrasing". Does anyone have another source, with such claims made by Toyota?

Yes there are other sources with same info. I don't have time to search for you but someone else might. They are here on the forum.

[cc700]

i dunno, i want to buy the brz now just because i want my money with subaru. it will go to toyota through their partial ownership anyway, but subaru should reap the benefits of what design and engineering they did do, whether it's just 'most' or all.

[CLTBRZ]

Originally Posted by cc700

i dunno, i want to buy the brz now just because i want my money with subaru. it will go to toyota through their partial ownership anyway, but subaru should reap the benefits of what design and engineering they did do, whether it's just 'most' or all.

I don't really understand the "I'm buying (blank) brand because I want them to get my money instead" or "because Subaru engineered the vehicle" crowds. The models will perform similarly, with the biggest differences involving amenities (HID/LED strip lights, auto CC, etc.) and styling. Personally I prefer the subdued rather than aggressive styling of the BRZ vs. FRS, and the amenities included in the BRZ packages that will likely be unavailable with the FRS which resulted in my BRZ decision.

It's not like these are two completely different cars, but they're not so close that there wouldn't be some sort of a preference to buy one over the other - It's not the best comparison, since the vehicles aren't identical, but if you were looking at a BMW 1 series and a Mini and you liked the included amenities, price point, and styling of the Mini but you would rather give BMW your money (because they designed and engineered both vehicles), you'd buy the BMW instead? Nowhere in that equation, for me anyways, does it make sense to buy the BMW. I just don't get that logic at all.

Edit: fail grammar

[tripjammer]

I heard all three cars driver different. The BRZ understeers, the FR-S is perfect and the 86 oversteers just a bit.

All three cars were all pre-production so we will not know till the final production models are released in June.

It all now depends on price.

If the FR-S is like $3k cheaper than a BRZ premium...then FR-S it is...but I want those HIDS, and dual zone AC with push start....hmmm. Come on subie...price the BRZ right!

Either way I will have one of these cars buy summer!

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

I heard all three cars driver different. The BRZ understeers, the FR-S is perfect and the 86 oversteers just a bit.

All three cars were all pre-production so we will not know till the final production models are released in June.

It all now depends on price.

If the FR-S is like $3k cheaper than a BRZ premium...then FR-S it is...but I want those HIDS, and dual zone AC with push start....hmmm. Come on subie...price the BRZ right!

Either way I will have one of these cars buy summer!

I thought it was the BRZ is perfect and the FRS oversteers. I remember reading that.

[Kunzite]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Yes there are other sources with same info. I don't have time to search for you but someone else might. They are here on the forum.

I would appreciate, if anyone remembers at least where I should look. From what I can remember, their stance is more or less:
- the idea was Toyota's (most likely right, as a FR is so un-Subaru)
- the styling was Toyota's (most likely right, as it looks quite good IMO)
- the technical stuff was Subaru's and Toyota's, in this order - but they're not always very clear about it. Indeed, they seems to forget mentioning Subaru though they would repeat it was a team work (instead of Subaru's "we did everything!")
- Toyota tested the car on track quite a lot, and one doesn't test the styling
That's from the reviews (non-TopGear ones), the presentation movie and some interviews.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I thought it was the BRZ is perfect and the FRS oversteers. I remember reading that.

No it's the other way around I read in a different thread. There was even a thread about the possibility of the FRS being to extreme for regular people because of its neutral handling characteristics and lift throttle oversteer.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

No it's the other way around I read in a different thread. There was even a thread about the possibility of the FRS being to extreme for regular people because of its neutral handling characteristics and lift throttle oversteer.

Ok. That could be the case and I am just confusing what I have read.

[Stigmaru]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

I heard all three cars driver different. The BRZ understeers, the FR-S is perfect and the 86 oversteers just a bit.

All three cars were all pre-production so we will not know till the final production models are released in June.

It all now depends on price.

If the FR-S is like $3k cheaper than a BRZ premium...then FR-S it is...but I want those HIDS, and dual zone AC with push start....hmmm. Come on subie...price the BRZ right!

Either way I will have one of these cars buy summer!

I think it was closer to BRZ is perfect, FRS understeers but all these are just rumors based on not enough driving around

I believe this car belongs to more Subaru than Toyota.

Toyota can go on and on about how it was their idea, because it honestly was. But it was more of something like this:

Toyota: I am imagining this dream car!!
Subaru: There we built it for you

In reality, the requirements were defined by Toyota: RWD, 4 passenger coupe, approx. 200HP. Everything else Subaru pretty much designed and built. In the end, Toyota can't lose no matter what because they own almost a quarter of Subaru stocks.