Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[tomm.brz]

with ecutek i can t see where is the problem of cranking with even pure ethanol in the tank
you have so much control over cranking with flex fuel, it s so easy to adjust

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

That interesting re the no difference re the drive shaft. I was under the impression there was a night and day difference. That’s $2k saved if it’s good but too noisy. I’m past driving mechanically noisy cars. Unless it’s for a sequential gearbox.

So just wondering what the major difference was when you had the motor rebuilt with regard to the performance of the Harrop and drivability.

It’s well documented on these forums carbon fiber driveshaft shouldn’t add NVH. Carbon fiber is very good at dissipating vibrations. Aluminum driveshaft on the other hand does add NVH. The few people who did experienced NVH with carbon fiber driveshaft, many resolved it by rotating the driveshaft to rear diff by one hole, or getting the driveshaft rebalanced as they found one or more of the balance weights had fallen off. A properly balanced and installed carbon fiber driveshaft won’t add any NVH.

The benefits of a carbon fiber driveshaft are questionable if it’s worth the price though, especially if your oem driveshaft is able to hold your power. but don’t let NVH concerns be the reason for not doing a carbon driveshaft.

Dropping compression on the engine if you have E85 and a supercharger isn’t really recommended. You are too limited in boost even with smallest pulley and will sacrifice too much power for no real benefits. If you are limited to only 91 dropping to 11:1 or 11.5:1 with 93, is plenty to safely max SC boost with no real knock concerns. The numerous SC builds with more compression drop than that down to 9/10:1 spent ridiculous amounts of money to only make about 20whp more then they made on stock CR but less boost. 12.5:1 CR and 12psi or 10:1 CR and 18psi will be close in power. And 12psi is pretty safe on stock block, safe enough at least to not justify 10k$+ on a built block with lower CR to make the same or barely more power, (especially with all the inherent risks of built blocks, and inherent risks of more boost) And lower CR has negative trade offs like MPG and off boost power/drive ability. Now a built block with stock CR (E85) or slight CR drop (91-93) to safely make 50whp+ more over stock block might be worth the cost to the individual. Again this is specific to supercharger builds.

Turbo builds CR drop is different as turbos can make plenty of boost to make up the CR drop.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Fensport oversized/underdriven water/alt pulleys.

Not sure why AC would matter.

Pretty sure the AC has an auto cut out.. Read it somewhere but not sure at what RPM. 6000 rings a bell.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

with ecutek i can t see where is the problem of cranking with even pure ethanol in the tank
you have so much control over cranking with flex fuel, it s so easy to adjust

No issue with my car. ECUtek and e85 are fine on start up even at 5deg c. Annoying issues arise, roughness and almost stalls in reverse, for 2 mins post startup but once warm no issues.

[tomm.brz]

also that can be adjusted, it just requires time and effort but about temperature, no way it s a problem

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Pretty sure the AC has an auto cut out.. Read it somewhere but not sure at what RPM. 6000 rings a bell.

Yup, the AC clutch disengages at high RPM, not sure what rpm exactly. But that’s why I don’t see it being an issue. Plus personally i turn AC off if I’m going to be driving fast anyways so either way AC clutch should be disengaged.

[grumpysnapper]

The HKS oil cooler I added when I first whacked on the Harrop 3 years ago.. I had concerns about how well it would stand up to fairly rough treatment, but the whole system is as solid as a rock.
While I had the nose off I also replaced the coolant in the Harrop, and changed over the Mishimoto with a PWR.

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

It’s well documented on these forums carbon fiber driveshaft shouldn’t add NVH. Carbon fiber is very good at dissipating vibrations. Aluminum driveshaft on the other hand does add NVH. The few people who did experienced NVH with carbon fiber driveshaft, many resolved it by rotating the driveshaft to rear diff by one hole, or getting the driveshaft rebalanced as they found one or more of the balance weights had fallen off. A properly balanced and installed carbon fiber driveshaft won’t add any NVH.

The benefits of a carbon fiber driveshaft are questionable if it’s worth the price though, especially if your oem driveshaft is able to hold your power. but don’t let NVH concerns be the reason for not doing a carbon driveshaft.

Dropping compression on the engine if you have E85 and a supercharger isn’t really recommended. You are too limited in boost even with smallest pulley and will sacrifice too much power for no real benefits. If you are limited to only 91 dropping to 11:1 or 11.5:1 with 93, is plenty to safely max SC boost with no real knock concerns. The numerous SC builds with more compression drop than that down to 9/10:1 spent ridiculous amounts of money to only make about 20whp more then they made on stock CR but less boost. 12.5:1 CR and 12psi or 10:1 CR and 18psi will be close in power. And 12psi is pretty safe on stock block, safe enough at least to not justify 10k$+ on a built block with lower CR to make the same or barely more power, (especially with all the inherent risks of built blocks, and inherent risks of more boost) And lower CR has negative trade offs like MPG and off boost power/drive ability. Now a built block with stock CR (E85) or slight CR drop (91-93) to safely make 50whp+ more over stock block might be worth the cost to the individual. Again this is specific to supercharger builds.

Turbo builds CR drop is different as turbos can make plenty of boost to make up the CR drop.

Just to be clear I have had zero vibration problems with either the alloy or carbon driveshafts, they have both functioned perfectly. Noise transfer has been the complicating factor.

During many discussions about my Harrop/engine development a number of very good tuners here did in fact outline benefits with a lower compression bottom end for me.
In reality I won't be on E85 very often, and coupled with the lower octane fuels here, means that the lower compression actually has ongoing benefits, for me.

There is much less inherent risk with a quality built block designed for purpose, than a standard block which was not.

For me an engine build is not about chasing raw numbers, it has to be reliable, have scope for future development, have longevity and be useable. This is also why I chose the Harrop system.

I don't want an engine that is "pretty safe".

Some of the worst cars I have ever driven have been developed with only max numbers in mind. Sometimes "sacrificing power" can be a good thing.

As with life, there is no such thing as a free lunch, so there are always going to be compromises.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

For me an engine build is not about chasing raw numbers, it has to be reliable, have scope for future development, have longevity and be useable. This is also why I chose the Harrop system.

Not much point putting time, effort, and a shit load of money in to a car you have no confidence in or it’s not enjoyable to use..

The Harrop was a no brainer for me. O had a rest drive in one of the mechanics there car and was sold.

It is a brilliant piece of gear that integrates in to the engine bay perfectly and is so OEM in appearance it’s ridiculous. I looked at the SME TC kit here and while it is a fantastic kit with a great rep for quality and performance, it STILL has pipes Crisscrossing the engine bay. Even heat coated black they still look added on. Good but added on..

Have cops open your hood with a TC kit installed and even a non enthusiast cop is going to know there’s a TC sitting there. Open the hood of a car with a Harrop SC on it and ONLY an enthusiast cop who knows the car is going to know It’s not OEM.

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I have brought this up before, but I was thinking of adding a coolant surge tank to the system like the Edelbrock kit, specifically, I want to buy the tank from their kit. Your thoughts?

Yeah that's a really interesting idea, is there a specific issue you are trying to solve or improve?

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

Yeah that's a really interesting idea, is there a specific issue you are trying to solve or improve?

Exactly.. I’ve yet to see the blower cooling setup apart from the hoses to and from. It’s obviously under pretty low pressure and once filled doesn’t need replacing or checking unless there’s a leak.

What I’d like is a temp reading of the coolant going thru the intercooler and the air temp of the air outside and inside the blower. Not a must have but would be nice to be able to monitor.

[Kiske]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Exactly.. I’ve yet to see the blower cooling setup apart from the hoses to and from. It’s obviously under pretty low pressure and once filled doesn’t need replacing or checking unless there’s a leak.

What I’d like is a temp reading of the coolant going thru the intercooler and the air temp of the air outside and inside the blower. Not a must have but would be nice to be able to monitor.

Tanabe/Revell make a dual before/after temp gauge for iat. It includes 2 bungs. You could tap the blower runner and intake piping to get a live before and after air temps.



There are quote a few ways to tap one of the ic hoses post intercooler with a standard coolant temp gauge to monitor that. I almost think one could use the above dual guage and wire up their coolant sensors for some idea of a before and after of the liquid intercooler's performance. Not sure how accurate it would be though.

[Bodalenko]

What strut tower braces fit with the Harrop?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

What strut tower braces fit with the Harrop?

I have a Blitz. Cusco, Megan, beatrush. Most anything with a lift.