Expert prognosis for the planet

[Dadhawk]

Love the "She was just standing here" at the end. Really?

[Lantanafrs2]

10 miles of burning men

[Irace86.2.0]

This is proof that the majority of people who own SUVs and trucks don't drive off-road.

Just let the rich white guys get into their dance festival.

[Irace86.2.0]

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

solar water heaters

Let's see, they are ugly, in the US are 5x to 7x more expensive, will only work if it is mandated and subsidized, and still needs a backup system to work.

What's not to love?

Oh and you still have the option of not having enough hot water. I'll stick to my tankless water heater thanks.

(That said, I do see the advantage to them and if they were at a cost parity without being subsidized, I might consider it, well except they are ugly)

[LRNAD90]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

...will only work if it is mandated and subsidized...

Hmmm, seems to be an underlying theme here..

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Let's see, they are ugly, in the US are 5x to 7x more expensive, will only work if it is mandated and subsidized, and still needs a backup system to work.

What's not to love?

Oh and you still have the option of not having enough hot water. I'll stick to my tankless water heater thanks.

(That said, I do see the advantage to them and if they were at a cost parity without being subsidized, I might consider it, well except they are ugly)

Attractive roofs are really important, so I understand that.

IMO, the tank is the bulky, ugly part, but the tank doesn't need to be up there; it can be in the house and integrate into an electric heating element for backup. The price parity depends on how cheap/expensive the electricity/gas is and how popular the systems are. With less than a 100 year supply of natural gas in the US at current extraction and use rates, eventually an entire electric system will be necessary, in which case, this might be popular (driving down cost) and may be cheaper than buying electricity from the grid or installing more solar panels, maybe. I don't know.

[Irace86.2.0]

I'm a fan of the Rondo battery for energy storage because it is cheap and efficient, but this is cool engineering and the economics seem viable too.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Let's see, they are ugly, in the US are 5x to 7x more expensive, will only work if it is mandated and subsidized, and still needs a backup system to work.

What's not to love?

Oh and you still have the option of not having enough hot water. I'll stick to my tankless water heater thanks.

(That said, I do see the advantage to them and if they were at a cost parity without being subsidized, I might consider it, well except they are ugly)

I couldn't imagine that install on a composite roof, which most houses have, or dealing with them if you have to replace a roof. Solar panels are a nightmare in that situation too.

[Lantanafrs2]

The world would be a better place if there were more escalades.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I couldn't imagine that install on a composite roof, which most houses have, or dealing with them if you have to replace a roof. Solar panels are a nightmare in that situation too.

Great in hurricanes though.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

Hmmm, seems to be an underlying theme here..

There are a lot of subsidies going to agriculture, dairy, meat, oil, large corporations, etc. The fact that these exist isn't inherently good or bad.

In the case of Israel or other countries mandating and subsidizing these, it was in their self-interest to localize use, decrease the demand on the grid, and to reduce their dependance on imports of natural gas.

Here is a little education on Wright's Law:
https://ourworldindata.org/learning-curve
Basically, the economics of scale suggest that the price of something will drop predictably with the doubling, so if a government mandates something and subsidizes the upfront cost when it is more expensive then the price drops predictably to a price parity or better. This may happen naturally without the government, but at a considerable cost to the average family at a time of hardship when the supply of natural resources fall like was the case for the 1970's oil crisis. Even with a high demand, the industry wasn't mature, so the price was still high. Over a long time, the market matures and high demand drops the price like we have seen with solar panels and other technologies like TVs.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

The world would be a better place if there were more escalades.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I couldn't imagine that install on a composite roof, which most houses have, or dealing with them if you have to replace a roof. Solar panels are a nightmare in that situation too.

There is an answer for that.

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.co...rilling-holes/