Frs vs s2000

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by kcam86

I'm curious how motortrend came up with a laptime of 1:30 on a stock brz at willow. I smell some fluffed numbers on their part

Big willow = Willow Springs = Willow Springs International Raceway

Streets = little willow = willow springs = streets of willow springs.

Motor Trend is on streets, not wsir.

This car ran a 1:25 at Streets with 340TW tires.

[kcam86]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Big willow = Willow Springs = Willow Springs International Raceway

Streets = little willow = willow springs = streets of willow springs.

Motor Trend is on streets, not wsir.

This car ran a 1:25 at Streets with 340TW tires.

I'm going to have to start calling you sensei lol. Constantly teaching me haha. I was ljke damn randy pobst is good but god damn ! Lol

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by kcam86

I'm going to have to start calling you sensei lol. Constantly teaching me haha. I was ljke damn randy pobst is good but god damn ! Lol

I'm just slow

[kcam86]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'm just slow

Its ok lol you're faster than me on your slowest day

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by AyJay

Wow, don't be that guy.

Your opinion is awesome. 400hp will make your FR-S or S2000 the the bees knees! Especially at the track! The best part is your FR-S/S2k will be dead reliable session after session since the 2JZ is and the K20 is (not really).

For real!

I still love the K20 though...

Check this video out. The S2000 seems to have the edge in this one. The racing lines of the FRS are better. Love both cars!

Enjoy
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49268

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Problem is, you can make 400hp on a S2k reliably and sustainably with just the following:

- Bolt on kit
- Tune
- Engine Cooling

You need the following to make 400hp on a FRS reliably and sustainably:

- Extreme kit
or
- bolt-on kit + heavy headwork
- Tune
- Engine Cooling
- Oil cooling
- Upgraded transmission (no options unless you go sequential.... $$$$$$)
- Upgraded axles

Even then, nobody REALLY knows long term reliability, cuz most 400hp cars have blown up or broken stuff, and have gone down.


This is the result of slapping on a supercharger on the S2k; this car is heavily tracked.

See, now you're bringing moolah into the equation...

Well, S2K is clearly the winner if you're buying used. I would get a later model that is low mileage, mature, one-owner, etc. The market sees them around $20k for a low mileage mint one it appears. AP2 FTW!

However in my case, just another $5k more, I can already get into an FRS brand new. WHY NOT?! I wanted something new (my first new car) and it absolutely had to seat four if you really had to. The S2000 whether new or used does not offer that to me. Even if it was $25000! Plus, I already have a 2-seater I enjoy.

I will say I feel the FRS is the better chassis. You know, ones with hardtops...? It wins in chassis rigidity be default.

...not saying that the S2000 is not rigid enough because it is! It made me a believer that convertibles can be extremely agile and fast. It was definitely a car ahead of it's time. But in the end. Hardtop vs vert... I like the hardtop everytime.

If you want to talk about actual cost in modifying at the 400hp level, from what we currently know, you're right!

Around +/-300whp is what it seems like 86 owners are safe with on the stock motor boosted with pumpgas 93 (no care for e85, no can get).

So.....(drum roll).................... That means the FRS absolutely needs a compression drop in order to keep it together at greater power levels. Pretty much saying that you need a built motor

A better water/oil cooling system and performance axles should always be called for when you're going to put ANY car through rigorous racing. I guess the S2000 does not need axles? But ultimately, you need a built motor if you want your FRS to be any sort of fast which is another whole expense in itself.

I would advise against modding the head until some high grade performance cams come to market. I think HKS has camshafts but admitted I really haven't searched. Either way, once this motor gets better cams, it would be game time. Remember, you're comparing a car, the S2000, that already has a decade of tinkering with; against our brand new FRS. There hasn't really been any aftermarket development done on much of the motor yet. Well, the heads at least. Heck, even the software seems to have ONLY caught up to open source like OpenFlash Tablet giving the end-user full control.

There's still more to be developed with the FRS in all areas!

Who says the transmission is weak? From what I understand, it's a relative to the S2000 gearbox also made by Aisan...

The S2000 does have much of the advantage as it does not need a built motor for good power levels (350hp+). It's already forged to handle abuse. LUCKY! I guess the $40k was worth it when new. Even better if you're into buying one used that has been cared for.

Either way, don't expect your stock boosted motor to last forever no matter what it is. If you're racing a lot and maybe even competitively, you need a built racing motor. The end.

For myself, the FRS is that $40k S2000 type of car but in today's day. Oh yea, with a backseat

Eventually, my goals are similar to others..................

$25k FRS
$5k Built motor
$5k turbo, fuel, software
$5k sus,tire,brake

I'm sure you can do it for around $40k if you're a DIY'er. Maybe less! Give it a couple years too. We're already running 58 sec at Tsukuba in the first year's development!

As well, I can speak for the majority of us when saying that we're not looking to yank our motors out anytime soon, under full warranty, to rebuild it.

For now, I'm going to enjoy my car slow and stock. Gives me a chance to really learn the car. Just like when my MR2 was non-turbo for 5 years until I put the gen3 motor in it.

Cheers.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Well, S2K is clearly the winner if you're buying used. I would get a later model that is low mileage, mature, one-owner, etc. The market sees them around $20k for a low mileage mint one it appears. AP2 FTW!

Lower mileage AP1 is a lot less... No reason to spend anything like $20k for a good, solid S2000

However in my case, just another $5k more, I can already get into an FRS brand new. WHY NOT?!

Speaking for myself, because the FR-S would cost me at least $10k up to $15 more, 237hp>200hp, better suspension, but primarily I don't have to worry about engine failure due to DI injector issues tracking the S2k.

The S2000 does he much of the advantage as it does not need a built motor for good power levels (350hp+). It's already forged to handle abuse. LUCKY!

I don't see what luck has to do with it! It's not just forged internals, you should see the bottom end bearing retaining structure.

I guess the $40k was worth it when new.

Say WHAT?! Where'd you hear that I wonder... If you're talking about the fr-s being a $25000 car (which you did), you can't talk about the s2k being "$40k". Last iteration was $35k. Yes, it was more expensive than th FR-S is. No reason to misrepresent its price tag.

Either way, don't expect your stock boosted motor to last forever no matter what it is. If you're racing a lot and maybe even competitively, you need a built racing motor. The end.

Tons of people have thousands of track miles on stock factory F20C/F22C builds. Most serious track S2000s don't have to run "built 'racing' motors".

For myself, the FRS is that $40k S2000 type of car but in today's day.

Again, in hopes of undoing brainwashing on this point, S2000 was never a $40k car. Also, the fr-s isn't quite as ideal a track car out of the box as the s2000 was.

As well, I can speak for the majority of us when saying that we're not looking to yank our motors out anytime soon, under full warranty, to rebuild it.
For now, I'm going to enjoy my car slow and stock. Gives me a chance to really learn the car.

Just be aware of DI issues if you plan on tracking the car. Engines have been destroyed from normal track usage. Apparently there has been a fix in later tunes, but for whatever reason it might not be offerred to fix earlier cars.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Lower mileage AP1 is a lot less... No reason to spend anything like $20k for a good, solid S2000

Speaking for myself, because the FR-S would cost me at least $10k up to $15 more, 237hp>200hp, better suspension, but primarily I don't have to worry about engine failure due to DI injector issues tracking the S2k.

I don't see what luck has to do with it! It's not just forged internals, you should see the bottom end bearing retaining structure.

Say WHAT?! Where'd you hear that I wonder... If you're talking about the fr-s being a $25000 car (which you did), you can't talk about the s2k being "$40k". Last iteration was $35k. Yes, it was more expensive than th FR-S is. No reason to misrepresent its price tag.

Tons of people have thousands of track miles on stock factory F20C/F22C builds. Most serious track S2000s don't have to run "built 'racing' motors".


Again, in hopes of undoing brainwashing on this point, S2000 was never a $40k car. Also, the fr-s isn't quite as ideal a track car out of the box as the s2000 was.


Just be aware of DI issues if you plan on tracking the car. Engines have been destroyed from normal track usage. Apparently there has been a fix in later tunes, but for whatever reason it might not be offerred to fix earlier cars.

I think we should hold out longer on what the consensus is on the DI failures. Everybody talks as if everybodys car is going to catastrophically fail tomorrow due to the DI system. I personally think it's just a small percentage of people that is being blown way out of proportion. If it's happening to the majority, then we'll go from there.

Well according to the land of Canadia... They were $40k cars new. Take a few grand off for you Americans I suppose. Either way, it's certainly in that range. Don't know where your claims of brainwashing comes from. I suppose you need to defend your purchase...? Either way, the performance of the S2000 is better out of the box. I don't dispute that. Not sure why you're crying for

I expect my FA20 to last lots of racing too, stock. As should many other motors. You'd be a fool to expect any stock motor to last rigorous racing at double the horsepower. The S2000 may have more strength stock, but I can't see any motor lasting at double the horsepower doing sessions after sessions for a considerable length of time. You're going to eventually break; which calls for your motor build at some point. The FA20 seems to call for one earlier in the modding game against the S2000.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by aCab

Insurance on my FR-S is cheaper than my S2000 is/was. The S2000 is on storage insurance now though...last time it wasn't, I was a few years younger and likely in a different insurance bracket. Just do what I do...the more cars you have, the cheaper insurance gets on each one!

Yeah, the age and record, etc matter Mine were both top tier of rates from State Farm so they are comparible. An FR-S is actually cheaper to insure for me. I need to shop again though, maybe rates have changed enough since last May.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

Is seems as though the newer car always costs more to insure in my experience. Yet, almost everyone has posted how it's cheaper than their previous car.
I came from an 04 STI, totally clean record, excellent credit, married, multi car discount, etc., and the BRZ costs more to insure through every agent I got a quote from. How are people pulling that off?

^^ this is my experience also, even comparing it to cars that are 2-3x the cost - all 2013 model years. I need to quote a 2014 Stingray, I bet the BRZ will cost more to insure than that too.

If you ever find out the secret everyone else has let me know

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Big willow = Willow Springs = Willow Springs International Raceway

Streets = little willow = willow springs = streets of willow springs.

Motor Trend is on streets, not wsir.

This car ran a 1:25 at Streets with 340TW tires.

Hey Mike, just curious what times have you gotten with the S/C s2000? I'm assuming it also needs rear downforce once you S/C it?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Yeah, the age and record, etc matter Mine were both top tier of rates from State Farm so they are comparible. An FR-S is actually cheaper to insure for me. I need to shop again though, maybe rates have changed enough since last May.

The FRS costs more than the BRZ to insure, at least for me and the few owners I've chatted that have priced both...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

Hey Mike, just curious what times have you gotten with the S/C s2000? I'm assuming it also needs rear downforce once you S/C it?

haha... I'm not allowed to discuss those times, since it was purely for testing.

I can drive with or without downforce, although a balanced amount of downforce is always faster.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Say WHAT?! Where'd you hear that I wonder... If you're talking about the fr-s being a $25000 car (which you did), you can't talk about the s2k being "$40k". Last iteration was $35k. Yes, it was more expensive than th FR-S is. No reason to misrepresent its price tag.

Canadia pricing?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The FRS costs more than the BRZ to insure, at least for me and the few owners I've chatted that have priced both...

I quoted both for me with State Farm as well as two independent insurance brokers. All of them returned cheaper rates for the FR-S than the BRZ.

Too many factors for there to be a simple "x costs more than y".