Live Pics of Subaru Boxer Sports Car Architecture (BRZ) from Geneva! + Press Release

[SUB-FT86]

I could really care less about a turbo or AWD model. I just wish it came with a 2.5 liter Direct Injection Boxer engine. Why? Easy, it will have better torque(at least 40 more lb- ft)in the mid range and the 220hp would be easy without revving to high to get it. Something along the lines of 220hp@6200 rpms/ 190 lb-ft@4500 rpms with a curb weight of 2700-2800 lbs.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I could really care less about a turbo or AWD model. I just wish it came with a 2.5 liter Direct Injection Boxer engine. Why? Easy, it will have better torque(at least 40 more lb- ft)in the mid range and the 220hp would be easy without revving to high to get it. Something along the lines of 220hp@6200 rpms/ 190 lb-ft@4500 rpms with a curb weight of 2700-2800 lbs.

1st bold) Misses the point of creating a spiritual AE86 successor, as the 4A-GE is the bread and butter reason for the cars success.

2nd Bold) too heavy.

[SUB-FT86]

But see that's the problem. A sports car should evolve performance wise and not have anything in common with a engine that's around 20+ years. And also the weight you say is heavy might just be what it will be.

[cyde01]

i also can't understand why people are complaining about torque in a 4 cylinder car. what do you expect? 4 cylinder cars built for torque just don't work as well as revvy ones. if you want torque you really need more cylinders. and if you need a turbo that bad then be patient and stop whining, sure no turbo has been announced yet but that doesn't mean there's never gonna be a turbo option.

[NESW20]

i WANT revs. 8000 of them would be nice.

[FT-86GOD]

Originally Posted by cyde01

i also can't understand why people are complaining about torque in a 4 cylinder car. what do you expect? 4 cylinder cars built for torque just don't work as well as revvy ones. if you want torque you really need more cylinders. and if you need a turbo that bad then be patient and stop whining, sure no turbo has been announced yet but that doesn't mean there's never gonna be a turbo option.

And even if there is no turbo the after market seen will be more than happy to start testing with there products on this 'free flowing engine'....

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

But see that's the problem. A sports car should evolve performance wise and not have anything in common with a engine that's around 20+ years. And also the weight you say is heavy might just be what it will be.

More torque and more power does not equate to evolving. In this cars case, evolving is using a modern double-wishbone rear suspension (void on the AE86), and a more rigid suspension without compromising too much weight, lower center of gravity, and an engine mounted closer to the center of the car, all of which are evolutions based for performance. Its really silly actually. Toyota has given you the car the FT-86 is based off of without any confusion on communication. Its modeled after the AE86. You guys sound like you want a Celica / Celica Supra successor based off your wants of mid range torque, etc. (hey, the R series engines were GREAT at torque! ) That would be awesome to see, but this isn't the car filling that role currently.

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

More torque and more power does not equate to evolving. In this cars case, evolving is using a modern double-wishbone rear suspension (void on the AE86), and a more rigid suspension without compromising too much weight. Its really silly actually. Toyota has given you the car the FT-86 is based off of without any confusion on communication. Its modeled after the AE86. You guys sound like you want a Celica / Celica Supra successor based off your wants of mid range torque, etc. (hey, the R series engines were GREAT at torque! ) That would be awesome to see, but this isn't the car filling that role currently.

+1. in my opinion the torquey tC was a devolve rather than an evolve of the 7th gen celica. yeay, more torque and more lbs!!!

[aspera]

I'd like to see pix of the inboard sides of the front wheels. Lack of halfshafts would disprove any type of AWD system (on that display car only).

There's a great shot of where the center diff would be on the transmission. I'm just sayin'.

I think Subaru still sells AWD small cars in Japan like the Pleo. That AWD system is nothing like an Impreza/Legacy/Outback/Forester/blahblahblah AWD layout.

A through-the-road hybrid AWD system or 'diff forward' system could be in the future. They wouldn't tell you even if it was.

Is this transmission new? Instead of using current Aisin transmissions that are used in other cars...will Toyota/Subaru get a new transmission that will then be shared with other cars? In other words, is this a sneak peak at the next-gen Miata tranny?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

More torque and more power does not equate to evolving. In this cars case, evolving is using a modern double-wishbone rear suspension (void on the AE86), and a more rigid suspension without compromising too much weight, lower center of gravity, and an engine mounted closer to the center of the car, all of which are evolutions based for performance. Its really silly actually. Toyota has given you the car the FT-86 is based off of without any confusion on communication. Its modeled after the AE86. You guys sound like you want a Celica / Celica Supra successor based off your wants of mid range torque, etc. (hey, the R series engines were GREAT at torque! ) That would be awesome to see, but this isn't the car filling that role currently.

I understand where you're coming from but I wont be buying this car. You're also right about this car being geared more towards the AE86 crowd. That's not what I want.

[cyde01]

then why are you here posting? lol

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Technically if you want to say the different transmissions are different AWD systems, sure (torque splits and methods are different from tranny to tranny). But they all fit the same way, all the front axles still come out of the same place in the trannys (none use a separate transfer case with a second forward driveshaft). And none are even possible to use on this car given its motor's placement.

Vivio was just like evo style

[Jordo!]

Evolution of cars should match what people actually want to drive.

There is no market for a slow pretty econobox any more, and this will be priced between the base Mustang and base Z, and needs to perform somewhere between them to sell.

Like 1% of the people who buy this car will give a rat's ass about its aledged heritage or potential as a drift car. The rest are going to want to go reasonably fast in a straight line.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I understand where you're coming from but I wont be buying this car. You're also right about this car being geared more towards the AE86 crowd. That's not what I want.

Well, I don't see how you'd expect this thing to not cater to the AE86 crowd since the name is FT-86 for the Toyota version... I mean it's supposed to be the successor to the AE86.

I'm glad it's not using the 2.5L or boost, for a lot of reasons. For one, it's just not the soul of an AE86. The AE86 was a low-horsepower car that was fun because of its lightweight, not because of zomgzboostedtorquez. It's kinda pointless to expect a Supra out of an AE86. Since the Subaru/Toyota versions will be similar, don't see why you'd expect something different. If you're wanting boost and torque, why not just get a WRX/STI?

As far as sub-250 horsepower cars not being popular, I think if anything the opposite will be true. As the economy recovers, fuel prices will start going back up again. Already the demand for cars is overwhelmingly for fuel economy. That favors smaller, more fuel-efficient engines, not another boosted 2JZ. Hence fuel economy, not brute horsepower numbers will be on the minds of potential buyers.

Without getting into much specifics, I'll just say I'm glad that they picked this powerplant, because I think it's a pretty good one.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

There is no market for a slow pretty econobox any more, and this will be priced between the base Mustang and base Z, and needs to perform somewhere between them to sell.

Where do you even get this from? The exact opposite is true. 370z sales have dropped and dropped over the years. The switch from 350Z to 370Z didn't help at all. Annual sales by year:

2003 - 36,728
2006 - 24,635
2009 - 13,117
2010 - 10,215
2011 - (sales so far are LOWER than 2010)

From a market perspective, it's clearly a bad idea to pursue the 370Z. "Econobox sales" (aka Civic) meanwhile have been very strong in the past 5 years. So the reverse is true. Econoboxes are here to stay, people are moving away from high-performance machines.