BRZ/FR-S vs 2015 Mustang

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by TruRace

A hyundai genesis 3.8 weighs 3433lbs. Is that still considered a sports car?

No, it's a GT
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_tourer"]Grand tourer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame](turismo)

...and so is the 370z. Which is why most enthusiasts are generally disappointed in it. Too much focus on long distance touring comfort and bling. Not focused enough focus on nimbleness and track viability (think "Motorsports" when you think "Sports car"). The Gencoupe & 370 are billed as a sports cars, but are actually is another pair of GTs.

[chulooz]

Are GTs not sports cars?

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Are GTs not sports cars?

Not really (more wikipedia)

A grand tourer (Italian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: gran turismo) (GT) is a performance or luxury Automobile capable of high speed or spirited long-distance driving. The most common format is a two-door Coupe with either a two-seat or a 2+2 (car body style) arrangement.
The term derives from the Italian language phrase gran turismo, a tribute to the tradition of the Grand Tour, used to represent automobiles regarded as grand tourers, able to make long-distance, high-speed journeys in both comfort and style. The English translation is grand touring.


A sports car (sportscar or sport car) is a small, usually two seat, two door Automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling.[2] Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite

[SUB-FT86]

So I guess a C7 is a GT because it weighs 3300+ lbs.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

So I guess a C7 is a GT because it weighs 3300+ lbs.

Its a sports car

"Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite"

Considering the C7's performance envelope & usability, I believe it's weight to be at a minimum point. Whereas a Gencoupe or 370z's performance & usability could be reached with less weight if the car was focused less on touring comfort & style (sound deadening, ride comfort, etc).

[chulooz]

And since when is wiki the authority of the car world? Obviously there are cars that the blend the lines of sport and GT showing you just how erroneous the separate species are. Performance cars are performance cars; some have luxury, some have agility, and some have torque.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by chulooz

And since when is wiki the authority of the car world? Obviously there are cars that the blend the lines of sport and GT showing you just how erroneous the separate species are. Performance cars are performance cars; some have luxury, some have agility, and some have torque.

General consensus does not grant authority. However these car category definitions were established long before the internet & wikipedia.

Sports car enthusiast generally look for cars focused on motorsports activities. Low weight helps to grant these dynamics.

Those that enjoy Grand Touring will look for more comfort and power with the trade of generally being higher weight.

So to bring the idea back around to why some care about the weight of the new Mustang (even though it is more powerful). It is because they hold to the more traditional motorsports oriented approach of the Miata & '86 over the touring oriented approach of muscle cars and asian GTs.

[SUB-FT86]

But then one can say the C7 could be lighter just like they could use the same argument for other so-called sports cars.

[TruRace]

So the FRS is a GT?

[chulooz]

Too some traditional motorsports was making sure your buggie can outrun the coppers.

Some cars offer luxury, comfort, and minimal weight; what do you call those?

And so the idea is you want the mustang to be built less like a mustang and more like a gutless 4cyl? Why? Still the twins at 2,700+lbs are not exactly at their minimal weights either; thus enters an entirely ignored component of the car, its price.

[SigmaHyperion]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Its a sports car

"Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite"

Considering the C7's performance envelope & usability, I believe it's weight to be at a minimum point. Whereas a Gencoupe or 370z's performance & usability could be reached with less weight if the car was focused less on touring comfort & style (sound deadening, ride comfort, etc).

The very definition that you yourself posted said that sports cars can be "luxurious". Just because it they could be executed with less weight by losing some of that "touring comfort and style", doesn't mean they're not sports cars. It's just where their designers took them on the spectrum of being a sports car is all.

All Grand Tourers are Sports Cars. Not all Sports Cars are Grand Tourers.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by SigmaHyperion

The very definition that you yourself posted said that sports cars can be "luxurious". Just because it they could be executed with less weight by losing some of that "touring comfort and style", doesn't mean they're not sports cars. It's just where their designers took them on the spectrum of being a sports car is all.

All Grand Tourers are Sports Cars. Not all Sports Cars are Grand Tourers.

All Grand Tourers are Sports Cars. - Untrue
This is quite simple: If a car is big, heavy and still fast in a straight line like a Bentley it may feel "sporty", but it would be horrible in a sporting event without major modification and thus not a "sports" car.

Not all Sports Cars are Grand Tourers - True
Indeed, most sports cars are not GT's by definition. Sports cars like Miata, '86, or Elise wouldn't fit the bill to take on a long road tour if the goal is to get there fast, in comfort and style (fast and stylish yes, but comfortable, not as comfortable as lets say a Challenger).

Finally, luxury can be achieved without compromising weight and performance (lets say via lightweight materials such as carbon fiber, magnesium, or other alloys) then a car can be both luxurious and light. Porsche accomplishes this with the Cayman, Audi with the TT and R8, Acura with the NSX. However if a car is made luxurious at the expense of performance then it may find itself more Touring focused, and thus a GT.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

All Grand Tourers are Sports Cars. - Untrue
This is quite simple: If a car is big, heavy and still fast in a straight line like a Bentley it may feel "sporty", but it would be horrible in a sporting event without major modification and thus not a "sports" car.

Not all Sports Cars are Grand Tourers - True
Indeed, most sports cars are not GT's by definition. Sports cars like Miata, '86, or Elise wouldn't fit the bill to take on a long road tour if the goal is to get there fast, in comfort and style (fast and stylish yes, but comfortable, not as comfortable as lets say a Challenger).

Finally, luxury can be achieved without compromising weight and performance (lets say via lightweight materials such as carbon fiber, magnesium, or other alloys) then a car can be both luxurious and light. Porsche accomplishes this with the Cayman, Audi with the TT and R8, Acura with the NSX. However if a car is made luxurious at the expense of performance then it may find itself more Touring focused, and thus a GT.

Great, so an FRS is a sports car, and so is a BRZ premium... but the BRZ Limited adds weight for luxury; so its a GT. Their are plenty of cars that would violate your formula; the industry is not that rigid.

All GT's are indeed sports cars. Bentleys will do fine at specific sporting events. You are implying biases toward certain sections of performance cars; it all started with the mustang talk(which, even as 'too heavy', can consume the twins in near any sporting event) [ib4buticanjustgetaturbo]

[SUB-FT86]

An FR-S isn't really a competitor in a sporting event stock other than autox. It also requires modifications to be competitive.