Stiff 2nd Gear actuation when cold on manual 6 Speed of FRS/BRZ? There's a reason!

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by torqdork

It's true. Mine is stiff even when warm. That doesn't sound quite right, but anyway...

Wow is that yours? Beautiful!

[torqdork]

Thanks. It might be the original Toyota drifter before the term was coined.

As nice a driver as the GT is, the FR-S would probably be more than a match on a road course and would easily pull it in a sprint to 100mph, but without the classic sounds of a tuned inline 6.

It's a eerie how similar they are in so many ways. FR-S is like a time machine that way, showing how much has changed in 45 years but also why it's a future classic.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

For some it is the other way around. The digital speedometer is redundant because the car has a needle.

Losing the needle means losing peripheral reference to speed. Instead of glancing at needle location you must look exactly at the value of a number. Difference between a watch with hands and a digital clock. Not everything needs to be digital.

Consider, instead, that it would be easier to incorporate these readouts into the existing LCD. This would alleviate the "replacement cluster" indicator because you're just reprogramming the existing LCD display. Add sensors, let the driver cycle between readouts by pressing the turn signal stalk (or something like that), and set warnings as they wish. Then the driver can select which readout to monitor, and if they reach - for example - excessive oil temperature, then the LCD would automatically go to that readout and flash to indicate the problem.

TRD could sell this as a full kit. Sensors, reprogramming (or aux control box), and something fun like a tachometer overlay that has yellow and orange markings and the TRD logo.

I totally get your point, just that I would rather have the needles indicating the oil temp so I have a physical reference to these parameters.

When I am racing, I never really look at the speedometer much as dynamic reference for the actual speed is through my outward vision and noises as well as physical limits approaching through the tactility of the car. A needle oil temp and pressure with blinking warning might be nice.

I do however assume that reprogramming the window is much easier and cheaper for the makers, rather than to make a new mechanical piece as you say.

[Moto-P]

Oil Cooler with Setrab hardware, and APEXi electronic meter.

With a bit of sunshine and warm weather coming soon to our tracks, I thought it was a good idea to equip the Scion FRS with a medium sized engine oil cooler to protect our FA20. We chose the Setrab core for it's known reliability and quality, and fitted it with silicone braided hoses, aluminum aircraft fittings, and a Mocal adapter block. To see the actual temps from inside the car, we also plan to use this APEXi EL-II Series electronic meter for clear, accurate reading of the temperature.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

I totally get your point, just that I would rather have the needles indicating the oil temp so I have a physical reference to these parameters.

When I am racing, I never really look at the speedometer much as dynamic reference for the actual speed is through my outward vision and noises as well as physical limits approaching through the tactility of the car. A needle oil temp and pressure with blinking warning might be nice.

I do however assume that reprogramming the window is much easier and cheaper for the makers, rather than to make a new mechanical piece as you say.

Good point. Needles are better in both instances. Combined with blinking warning. Looks like your APEXi EL gauge has both.

Setrab - great choice!

[Hownet]

Thanks Moto-san for the information!

[root]

The prob I have with the analog speedo is the needle orientation and size of lines. At the speeds I drive at I find it close to impossible to read with the needle down there.
I actually prefer analog gauges to digital most of the time.

[Lakers86]

Thanks Moto! i have peace of mind now haha.

[SanDiegoFRS]

I only see this issue when I first turn on the car and try to put it in reverse. I have
To let it sit for a second. I don't think she would be much of a getaway car if I got it cold.

[imom]

With all respect to the OP, but I think it's BS to say difficulty shifting in 2nd is normal. My Taco truck was fine driving dead cold. My Z4 3.0SI had no issues either. My M roadster had issues and was reduced quite a bit with RP synchromax... but was a pain...but better than the 86 platform. I suspect that removing the clutch delay valve would also help with the shifting...but haven't seen a good easy solution with the BRZ.

Mini cooper with front wheel drive and tranny directly mounted was smooth as butter. Audi S5 was a dream to drive..just wants to suck into gears smoothly. I think it's a poor excuse to say it's designed that way... it's a design flaw that requires some work around. I wonder if they will say the direct injector seals was intentional as well?

With so many folks commenting about it and this being a first revision of the 86 platform I am sure they will work this out in the second or third revision. I don't expect a $30K car to perform as well as $60K car... 86 cars handle well for it's design...but I chuckle when I first saw the differential and how small all the parts were...I am amazed how they designed to car to perform well in handling with skinny suspension...really cool.. but this car has some flaws as all cars do, but I have a hard time accepting this 2nd gear notchy and shifting issue is normal...so many other cars don't have the issue.

[jdcorbitt3]

Mazda started using this Gear box in the 1999 anniversary edition. It was the same. I also had the RX-8. As a second generation, it felt the same. The FT could be the third generation already. I don't think it is going to change. It takes longer to warm up the transmision and differential than the engine. Cold metal is brittle. I use the stiffness as an indicator of when the transmision is warmed up. I sheared a tooth off my pinion gear in my 1985 RX-7 being aggressive when it was cold. I have not had a gearbox issue in over 25 years using this proceedure. Almost all of my time is in Japco and Aisen transmissions with a little in Porsche, Allison, and Getrag.

John

[Mister]

[imom]

Originally Posted by Mister

How is this constructive? If you don't have some good information to contribute posting comments like this doesn't do a whole lot. The fact you got your transmission replace should say a lot. It doesn't matter if the post is old or new. I still see lots of new threads about tranny and oil change issues so if you got something good to share to the community then please share. Otherwise just don't follow or go on to the next thread.

[Norton 850]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

For those who are wondering if it was normal for the FR-S/BRZ 6 speed manual's 2nd gear to be at times, stiff on a cold morning start-up...

Don't worry, it's not a malfunction or a defect.

I would really like to believe: "this is normal for a high-performance gearbox" but it just doesn't work for me. If this were indeed the case, then how is it that there are BRZs/FRSs out in the wild that have buttery smooth shifting gearboxes when cold or hot?

I suspect that machine tolerances are at the root cause of the problem. I believe that the tolerances on certain parts are too loose and when the finished parts are at the extreme ends of the specified tolerances, the result is a scrunchy shifting gearbox. AISIN probably knew this going into the development of this gearbox and figured it would be cheaper to replace any problematic gearboxes than it would be to manufacture to tighter tolerances.

However, I suspect that AISIN thought there would be much fewer problems than what are currently being reported.

At any rate, it's not right, and AISIN should fix it under warranty.