supercharger or turbo?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by drifter

But, as Sportsguy stated, are you sure the other set-ups like Vortechs will pass emitions?

Do you think that it's a significant possibility that it would not? That is the reason I've been looking at S/C instead of turbo because I figured if it retained both cats then it would pass emissions.

Also, if I wanted to make AVO's kit pass emissions(in a non-CARB state), is that possible or what could I do to make that happen in the most cost effective way?

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by drifter

But, as Sportsguy stated, are you sure the other set-ups like Vortechs will pass emitions? The idea behind the AVO was simplicity and stealth, eventhough it deletes one of the cats.

So, for me, the best FI system out there for the money is worthless to me if I"m going to get it trouble or issued a fine because I live in CA.

The AP kit is really stealth, much moreso than the AVO. The Vortech is completely obvious.

The AVO kit deletes 2 of the 3 cats. Also this will have some issues with CEL unless the system tricks the O2 sensors. I'm sure they have thought of this during development of the kit.

The AP kit keeps the factory manifold, as does the Vortech kit. This will retain the factory emissions equipment so you shouldn't have any issues.

The AP kit is my favorite. The FT86club kit also looks great, and it takes queues from the AP kit. Of course, there are only so many ways to make a kit. The FT86club kit also has not been tested.

I lean towards the AP kit most. Haters will hate the oil scavenge system. But the turbo mounts low, is lightweight, keeps the COG down, and it installs simple with no cutting or welding.

[AVOturboworld]

Just to note here, there's two cats, not three. One in the exhaust manifold, and then the secondary in the frontpipe section. And we'd remove that primary one way or another anyways, we are not a fan of having a cat before the turbocharger. Not due to performance issues, but other issues.

[JoeBoxer]

Yeah no way i would want a cat in front of the turbo, i didn't even think of that.

[2forme]

FWIW I did a quick, rough torque graph between the Vortech SC, AVO turbo kit (92 octane) and what my car did on Visconti e85/AFE/SRT.

I added 4% to the dynojet numbers to account for the higher numbers that dynapacks produce.

[drifter]

hmm....Makes clearer what Mandalay was talking about re Vortech, not achieving full potential until very highest RPM's.

Also, this from PERIN/Vortech thread: "The power at 3000 is just a bit more so the punch while just cruising down the road is better. But if you are 4000 or higher the punch is instant and perfect."

Not an expert at reading graphs here, but does the above graph reflect this statement?

[2forme]

Yea, one thing to consider is the cost of a clutch. The AVO will need a clutch. I'm not sure if the Vortech will since it makes 25 less ft lbs than the AVO.

All things considered, you're getting a lot more power for the money with AVO... even with the clutch.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by 2forme

FWIW I did a quick, rough torque graph between the Vortech SC, AVO turbo kit (92 octane) and what my car did on Visconti e85/AFE/SRT.

I added 4% to the dynojet numbers to account for the higher numbers that dynapacks produce.

You got really good results out of V's E85 tune! I wonder what an E85 tune would look like with that Vortech kit. Or AVO's kit for that matter. A Valero just opened near my place with E85 and a touch free car wash.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Yea, one thing to consider is the cost of a clutch. The AVO will need a clutch. I'm not sure if the Vortech will since it makes 25 less ft lbs than the AVO.

All things considered, you're getting a lot more power for the money with AVO... even with the clutch.

It all depends on how you drive really. If the kit where making 230-250 TQ, I would wholeheartedly agree, it would definitely need a clutch. But, at peak 197 TQ, it will depend how you handle your clutch. I'm sure a lot of people not killing it on shifts or launch will be able to keep the stock clutch for a long time.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

It all depends on how you drive really. If the kit where making 230-250 TQ, I would wholeheartedly agree, it would definitely need a clutch. But, at peak 197 TQ, it will depend how you handle your clutch. I'm sure a lot of people not killing it on shifts or launch will be able to keep the stock clutch for a long time.

Yea. True. If I go with this kit, I'm going to try it with no clutch upgrade first. I don't beat the snot out of my clutch. I rev match 99.9% of the time anyway.

[gmookher]

I'll be pairing the FI solution on my car from Vortech with a higher HP clutch, have no reason to not try the lightweight option. my last clutch purchase was years ago, from centerforce. Looking at the fx400 for non lightweight, dunno whose product is good on the race side.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by gmookher

I'll be pairing the FI solution on my car from Vortech with a higher HP clutch, have no reason to not try the lightweight option. my last clutch purchase was years ago, from centerforce. Looking at the fx400 for non lightweight, dunno whose product is good on the race side.

Clutches are rated in torque, not HP. Because clamping force doesn't really care what RPM you're making the torque at.

I, personally run an ACT 6 puck in my other car. It's a bit on the stiff side, but easy to get used to. Has held up superb, so I would definitely recommend ACT clutches.

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Clutches are rated in torque, not HP. Because clamping force doesn't really care what RPM you're making the torque at.

I, personally run an ACT 6 puck in my other car. It's a bit on the stiff side, but easy to get used to. Has held up superb, so I would definitely recommend ACT clutches.

Saw that you were looking into ACT on another thread, but didnt read it fully, do they have a application for our car? Lightweight?

What other car(hehe)?

[2forme]

Originally Posted by gmookher

Saw that you were looking into ACT on another thread, but didnt read it fully, do they have a application for our car? Lightweight?

What other car(hehe)?

They've got a street disc which should hold your Vortech kit. You have the option to buy with a flywheel as well. 750$ I think, but don't quote me on that.