Article posted on the valve recall engine murders

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I don't think there has been a single person totally refused an engine replacement yet. They know what the issue is and will make good. Getting there will be a pain in the ass for the owner but they can't help that.

There are a lot of reports of them saying it isn’t covered. Sure the owners are still fighting without a final conclusion but when you have a job like this done and pick up your car and only make it two blocks before it blows and then they start pointing fingers it leaves a bad taste.

A reputation can be ruined simply by perception even if it is a delusional perception without a full dataset.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by ermax

Well the original question was something along the lines of, “do dealers even open engines anymore”. You said yes, now you say no. My FA20 didn’t even make it to 105k before it spun #3. I didn’t drop 10-15 on an engine though. I dropped ~2150 for a short block, FIPG, coolant, oil, filter and gasket kit and I’ve put 8K on it since. IMO a car shouldn’t spin bearings this soon though.

As for modern engines not getting refreshed. It’s not the engine that has changed in the last 15 years it’s just the throw away mentality that has changed.

Dealers open engines for a specific reason. 30 years ago if you spun a rod bearing you would clean it out, check the crank, send parts to the machine shop and rebuild. If you spun a main bearing you would tear it down, have the block cleaned and line bored and rebuild. That doesn't happen now. you said it yourself, spun a bearing, bought a new short block.

99.99% of people aren't taking a short block home and rebuilding their own engine. 90% of people don't even know how to pop their hood.

There isn't a whole lot to "check" on a new engine. If the crank is "worn" you get a new crank. If the cylinders are "worn" you get as new block. Hard to believe these engine still have lifter shims, I don't believe I've worked on a car engine built in the last 40 years with lifter shims.

I'll just obliviously drive my Japanese car until it has a problem. I don't plan on taking it in to have my points adjusted any time soon.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by maslin

Dealers open engines for a specific reason. 30 years ago if you spun a rod bearing you would clean it out, check the crank, send parts to the machine shop and rebuild. If you spun a main bearing you would tear it down, have the block cleaned and line bored and rebuild. That doesn't happen now. you said it yourself, spun a bearing, bought a new short block.



99.99% of people aren't taking a short block home and rebuilding their own engine. 90% of people don't even know how to pop their hood.



There isn't a whole lot to "check" on a new engine. If the crank is "worn" you get a new crank. If the cylinders are "worn" you get as new block. Hard to believe these engine still have lifter shims, I don't believe I've worked on a car engine built in the last 40 years with lifter shims.



I'll just obliviously drive my Japanese car until it has a problem. I don't plan on taking it in to have my points adjusted any time soon.

But this isn’t due to modern “engines”. It’s just a modern “mentality”. You made it sound like engines have dramatically changed to were clearances no longer need to be checked. I have rebuilt bottom ends in the past on cars with less value. On my FRS I decided it made the most since to just get a new short block. Again, that has nothing to do with how the engine is built or that it is more modern. That is all I am getting at.

BTW, it has shims in the valve stems, not on the lifters. What does Merc do? Throw out the car when you need a valve lash adjustment? Sounds like German cars really are lease only cars.

[Takumi788]

I haven't had a FA20 apart yet but from what I can see from pictures a physical gasket looks possible. Why did Subaru only use sealant on the timing cover/oil pump instead of a gasket? Cost?

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I don't think there has been a single person totally refused an engine replacement yet.

I've been given the paperwork with estimates to replace twice now (between $5,000 and $15,000). I refuse and call corporate, I have an open case with NHTSA because they refuse to help me. I also have over 4 open tickets with corporate and call them every morning on days I work, and multiple times on my days off. For the last 2 weeks. The dealership tells me that they cannot help me and to work with corporate. The corporate people know who I am before I give my case number. It's taken me this long to get to tier 2 of corporate customer support. I'll fight for months.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Takumi788

I haven't had a FA20 apart yet but from what I can see from pictures a physical gasket looks possible. Why did Subaru only use sealant on the timing cover/oil pump instead of a gasket? Cost?

As already stated. There are too many mating surfaces coming together to use a traditional gasket. It’s easy to use a rubber gasket when only two surfaces are coming together. When you have two block halves, two heads, cam subassemblies and valve covers with a timing cover that spans across all of these components you are going to have small inconsistent gaps that can’t be bridged with a traditional gasket. The only way it would work is if everything got bolted together and then machined into a perfect mating surface. This isn’t going to work unless you never intend to open the engine up because it’s never going to bolt back together the same way twice. FIPG on the other hand works it’s way into all these gaps perfectly. You just can’t be careless when applying it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

I've been given the paperwork with estimates to replace twice now (between $5,000 and $15,000). I refuse and call corporate, I have an open case with NHTSA because they refuse to help me. I also have over 4 open tickets with corporate and call them every morning on days I work, and multiple times on my days off. For the last 2 weeks. The dealership tells me that they cannot help me and to work with corporate. The corporate people know who I am before I give my case number. It's taken me this long to get to tier 2 of corporate customer support. I'll fight for months.

Yep. Royal pain in the ass but you will triumph I am sure. The other end of the spectrum are the several dealers reported to say "Oops we screwed up and will fix that" without any issue at all.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep. Royal pain in the ass but you will triumph I am sure. The other end of the spectrum are the several dealers reported to say "Oops we screwed up and will fix that" without any issue at all.

I just counted 3 that are getting fixed at no cost. One was a Subaru. The rest have been rejected or are still fighting. Oh and one guy got a free short block but they are charging him for the labor. That one is still under the original warranty by millage but not by time. So the “optics” don’t look that great.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep. Royal pain in the ass but you will triumph I am sure. The other end of the spectrum are the several dealers reported to say "Oops we screwed up and will fix that" without any issue at all.

The real nitpicky thing with my case, is that my car has a salvage title ( stage 1 flooding) so they're can't use warranty to cover this. I can understand why they don't like it, but my car was fine before, and isn't now - I'm not going to let my title status give them the day off

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

The real nitpicky thing with my case, is that my car has a salvage title ( stage 1 flooding) so they're can't use warranty to cover this. I can understand why they don't like it, but my car was fine before, and isn't now - I'm not going to let my title status give them the day off

I could understand the title thing for a warranty denial for just about anything but your case. Clearly a botched repair.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

The real nitpicky thing with my case, is that my car has a salvage title ( stage 1 flooding) so they're can't use warranty to cover this. I can understand why they don't like it, but my car was fine before, and isn't now - I'm not going to let my title status give them the day off

Ouch. I know under my brand a flagged VIN disallows any goodwill warranty, period. Either the dealer fixes it with cash out of their pocket, our you're on your own.

Easy for the dealer to say take it to corporate, and corporate to say take it to the dealer. Everyone wins and you lose.

An aftermarket warranty kills goodwill for us as well. Even the aftermarket warranty the dealer sells you when you buy the car. Crazy.

[alan.chalkley]

Originally Posted by Tgutz21

I took my 2013 BRZ in about 3 weeks ago for the recall. Since they were already doing the recall I asked what it would cost me to replace the clutch since it was starting to make a noise when it was engaged. They told me I would only charge me for parts and not labor since they’re pulling the engine anyway. Long story short I pick up the car last night and I drive it less than a quater mike and the engine dies. I was able to turn it back on and drive it back to the dealer. And it cut off just as I turned into the street and I just coasted it in a parking spot. They email me this morning wanting me to provide service records for the oil changes, because the block blew.. I’ve always done them myself at every 6-8k miles. I’m kinda worried they’re going to try to pin this on me when the car was running perfectly fine when I took it there. I’m curious as to what I should do or tell them if they try to send me a bill.

Just ask them for proof that they checked the engine oil level after the recall work and also for the drivers licence and mechanics trade licence of all who worked on and test drove the car.
The blame game (paperwork war) is a two way street.

[sofrsnsokleen]

I'd pushed the issue to the back of my brain but after seeing this reposted on jalopnik, it got me worried all over again.
Has anyone tried taking their FR-S to a Subaru dealer for this issue?
I'm curious if the Subaru Dealer repaired twins have as many issues as the Toyota repaired versions...
I'm still waiting on my letter from Toyota, my vin shows up as having a recall on the NHTSA website but I've yet to receive any letter... If i get a letter I may just outright sell my car

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by sofrsnsokleen

I'd pushed the issue to the back of my brain but after seeing this reposted on jalopnik, it got me worried all over again.
Has anyone tried taking their FR-S to a Subaru dealer for this issue?
I'm curious if the Subaru Dealer repaired twins have as many issues as the Toyota repaired versions...
I'm still waiting on my letter from Toyota, my vin shows up as having a recall on the NHTSA website but I've yet to receive any letter... If i get a letter I may just outright sell my car

You have to go to the dealer that sells the brand. Can't take a Scion to Subaru or Subaru to Scion etc.

I posted on a crosstrek page on FB, nobody even replied about this recall besides a dude I know that is a Subaru tech basically saying the issue is tech inflicted. His dealer is doing 2-4 of these a week across the subaru brand, no issues