CSG Mike's 2017 BRZ + Ace A350 dynos.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by Jakinit

Seeing this makes me sort of regret going for the Tomei UEL with overpipe. I have to get mine on the dyno and see what it's putting down.

Mike, unrelated but do you think a drop in filter would give any kind of bump to a '17?

Most of us with 17's have a drop in filter like Blitz ect. Paired with a Perrin '17 specific intake tube. Not going to feel much but pretty much the best bang for buck since the new air box is similar to the older model TRD box

[Kordless]

I'll vouch for the A/350, not that it needs it.

Even with an exhaust leak caused by my own negligence, (car ran really rich) the difference in power compared to OEM or Tomei Header with a Jackson Racing SC is huge.

One of the biggest surprises for me was that when the header had an exhaust leak at the overpipe, it caused the car to run really rich and was insanely loud, this just goes to show you how well this header really flows.

Thank you Mike and David @CSG!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jakinit

Seeing this makes me sort of regret going for the Tomei UEL with overpipe. I have to get mine on the dyno and see what it's putting down.

Mike, unrelated but do you think a drop in filter would give any kind of bump to a '17?

I'd say zero gains.

I use an OEM paper filter. Now that I think about it I should probably change it; I've never changed it.

Oops.

[BuffDriver]

Having done both the DD in Houston 'rush hour" stop n go, mostly stop traffic and track sessions I can say that heat soak can get just as crackling hot and pinging sounds on shutoff as the track. Not every day but it happens. I have not measured but that much heat is not good. I also run out to W. Texas and New Mexico occasionally and let me tell you... when you come off I-10 after having driven 90 MPH (what traffic was going last couple of trips) for a couple hours your engine compartment is HOT. The stock header has the metal heat shield and it makes a lot of difference. When I have put headers on other vehicles I've owned and lost the OEM heatshield the heat increase was significant. Almost everyone reading this knows this is true.

Since the air intake is in front of the radiator and I have insulated the filter box and tube for the (Ha Ha) 0.5% performance gain the 'cold air' gives I want my heat under the hood low as reasonable to ensure longevity of engine compartment rubbers n plastics (and ECU's, etc).

FYI - I've ordered a new header and last week contacted the manufacturer with data I found on the metallurgy and allowable temp range of 304SS, asking if it would damage the header in use to be coated (Hint: it will not for exhaust temps under 1400 F continuous for NA engines, FI can have problems because of higher temps. I just wanted to know what they would say.). Also told them I did not care about the warranty, just would the ceramic cause the metal of the header to fail as is claimed by people on the forums - they sent back that Swaintech White Lightning coating was OK and would not void their warranty... but if there was a problem like a crack they would cover that but not be responsible for re-coating after repair. Seems reasonable to me.

I just wanted to know what CSG was using as an option or to otherwise use what I have gotten approved for the header.

[weederr33]

Is cracking coated headers really a common issue? I haven't heard very much at all about that.

[BuffDriver]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Is cracking coated headers really a common issue? I haven't heard very much at all about that.

There is so much myth and hearsay about wrapping or coating headers that it's hard to tell the truth.

And what material the headers are made of makes a major difference. There have been major advances both in design and materials but old opinions have not caught up. A perfect example is the performance of the A350 being discussed here!

Back in the day (ha ha) when I was driving my first car, a 1973 Mustang, the crap mild steel headers had to be repaired about every 1K miles (coat hanger n oxy/A torch DIY) and they rusted out in 6 to 7 K anyway. If you wrapped them cut that in half. Now I actually have not had a header problem on any car since the late 80's because of use of stainless. I STILL have/own a 1985 Chevrolet Beauville G20 van with a totally wrapped exhaust (wrapped with aluminum foil THEN exhaust wrap) that is still in great shape and it did not crack or en-brittle or all the threatened things everybody warned me about.

My opinion: So cracked headers is just mostly a scare tactic for NA but still happens sometimes with FI with bad tunes. It just got mentioned casually because I was just relaying what the header mfg said... Don't worry about it.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by BuffDriver

Having done both the DD in Houston 'rush hour" stop n go, mostly stop traffic and track sessions I can say that heat soak can get just as crackling hot and pinging sounds on shutoff as the track. Not every day but it happens. I have not measured but that much heat is not good. I also run out to W. Texas and New Mexico occasionally and let me tell you... when you come off I-10 after having driven 90 MPH (what traffic was going last couple of trips) for a couple hours your engine compartment is HOT. The stock header has the metal heat shield and it makes a lot of difference. When I have put headers on other vehicles I've owned and lost the OEM heatshield the heat increase was significant. Almost everyone reading this knows this is true.

Since the air intake is in front of the radiator and I have insulated the filter box and tube for the (Ha Ha) 0.5% performance gain the 'cold air' gives I want my heat under the hood low as reasonable to ensure longevity of engine compartment rubbers n plastics (and ECU's, etc).

FYI - I've ordered a new header and last week contacted the manufacturer with data I found on the metallurgy and allowable temp range of 304SS, asking if it would damage the header in use to be coated (Hint: it will not for exhaust temps under 1400 F continuous for NA engines, FI can have problems because of higher temps. I just wanted to know what they would say.). Also told them I did not care about the warranty, just would the ceramic cause the metal of the header to fail as is claimed by people on the forums - they sent back that Swaintech White Lightning coating was OK and would not void their warranty... but if there was a problem like a crack they would cover that but not be responsible for re-coating after repair. Seems reasonable to me.

I just wanted to know what CSG was using as an option or to otherwise use what I have gotten approved for the header.

Sustained highway EGT typically sits around 1400-1600 on my car. I see 1900-2000 on track. Highway can vary with conditions, obviously.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Is cracking coated headers really a common issue? I haven't heard very much at all about that.

Much more so with wraps than ceramic coatings. As stated above, a lot of inconsistency with a hand-done wrap can lead to a uneven heat and expansion in the wrapped header, which causes more stress, which causes a faster failure.

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Much more so with wraps than ceramic coatings. As stated above, a lot of inconsistency with a hand-done wrap can lead to a uneven heat and expansion in the wrapped header, which causes more stress, which causes a faster failure.

does that mean you wouldnt recommend ace headers with a coating or wraps?

[Deep Six]

Is there an ACE version that will clear a FBM oil pan. My HKS EL would not so we swapped in a Rev Works UEL instead.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Breadman

does that mean you wouldnt recommend ace headers with a coating or wraps?

I would recommend it bare, or ceramic coated, but not wrapped.

You simply cannot wrap this header in a manner that promotes even cooling and heating. There's no clearance for that.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Is there an ACE version that will clear a FBM oil pan. My HKS EL would not so we swapped in a Rev Works UEL instead.

based on pictures I *think* it will clear, but I've never seen the combo used (that I'm aware of), so I can't say for sure.

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I would recommend it bare, or ceramic coated, but not wrapped.

You simply cannot wrap this header in a manner that promotes even cooling and heating. There's no clearance for that.

what is the temp difference from coating it? i do plan on getting these next spring and i'm really concerned about the engine bay temp. with a more or less stock setup it is really hot when i open the hood

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Breadman

what is the temp difference from coating it? i do plan on getting these next spring and i'm really concerned about the engine bay temp. with a more or less stock setup it is really hot when i open the hood

Everything will eventually heat soak, including a ceramic coated header. Foe example, if a car is parked after a hard drive, the measured under-hood temp after a few minutes will likely be identical, whether you have ceramic or not. This isn't something I can A/B test, as swapping a header into an engine bay for back to back testing isn't really feasible on this scale, but the overall gist is "cooler".

If under-hood temps are really a big concern, the proper way to address it is with a vented hood and/or powerful fans.

The primary purpose of the ceramic coating is not to keep heat out of the engine bay, but to keep heat inside the header, to keep exhaust gas energy higher. Hotter exhaust = higher volume = more flow = more scavenging = more performance.