Can steering feel, tactility, be improved? Without sacrificing adjustability?

[Trettiosjuan]

Don't want to do adjustable coilovers. But since my summer touring tires grip all too well (tested similar to PS3), I'm might as well change to stiffer sidewalled sportsrubber, Bridgestone RE002 will be fitted once springtime arrives.

[Trettiosjuan]

Bridgestones were ok, very progressive once grip was lost, but a tad heavy so quite low on feedback and for my liking, a bit too much grip, low grip is just more fun.

Now I have these and save almost 6kg a corner compare to the stock wheel (18,3kg)...


This change helps in improving feedback a lot and the car is much more consistent in how it loses grip, but once sliding plenty they are less progressive then the RE002. Still, the OP goals have been achieved.

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

Bridgestones were ok, very progressive once grip was lost, but a tad heavy so quite low on feedback and for my liking, a bit too much grip, low grip is just more fun.

Now I have these and save almost 6kg a corner compare to the stock wheel (18,3kg)...


This change helps in improving feedback a lot and the car is much more consistent in how it loses grip, but once sliding plenty they are less progressive then the RE002. Still, the OP goals have been achieved.

I have the same wheel with a different tire setup, and moderatly modified suspension, and I find the car is very very fast in the corners and has much more steering weight but still very little "feedback"

[Trettiosjuan]

Tyre also plays a big role, as does geometry. And tyre pressures. Experimenting with the latter now. While higher pressures give a more direct and lightfooted feeling, I find it reduces grip feedback I get through the wheel.

[philooo]

any news on that electronic switch to control the power steering ?

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

Hello chassis experts.

Today I finally got the chance to test drive the GT86, with much anticipation and wanting to love it (and order it).
My findings basically agree with most things written in the reviews except one thing: I was disappointed in the steering feel.
Not the weight, not the centring, not the loading up in a corner, not the gearing. That was all perfect for me. I am talking tactility, the possibility too actually feel what is going on at the front wheels grip and direction wise, in all it's gradations. I just wasn't there for me even if reviewers talk about "bubbling with feel etc" and as a result, we did not "connect".

And unfortunately that is the single most important feature for me to getting this car.

But before dismissing the car completely, is there anything I can do to improve this? I really want to like this car for all it's other traits... thus any improvements without sacrificing comfort or changing to stiff and grippy tyres and ruining the playfullness when street driving the car? I do not plan to track the car often so driving pleasure on the street, even at moderate speeds, is no.1 for me.

Bilstein front struts are inverted and stiffen up the front suspension significantly.

Mostly though you are feeling the difference between electric servo and hydraulic servo. They are different but, truly the electric servo gives you more accurate steering feel than hydraulic it just takes getting used to the difference.

In a few years no hydraulic servo will be offered on any vehicle.

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by philooo

any news on that electronic switch to control the power steering ?

Not seen anything, but have since come to appreciate the weighting of the stock item. Some slight toe out up front has also added some welcome "weight" as it slightly loads up the sidewalls and makes them more communicative this way. How much depends on tire, don't want to introduce scrubbing/wear either...

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

They are different but, truly the electric servo gives you more accurate steering feel than hydraulic it just takes getting used to the difference.

Right. This is why the reviews of the newish Porsches with electric power assist have been criticized over the previous hydraulic assist cars for diminished feel.

"We have yet to drive a car that's been improved by electric steering, and driven plenty that have been ruined by it."
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...rsche-911.html

"But as the 997's front wheels track the cambers and surface changes of the A413 on the way home and the wheel gently writhes, wriggles and tugs at my hands it just feels more alive and natural." (997s have hydraulic assist. My brackets.)
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=26213

"During my eight-mile, speed-capped drive, it felt anesthetised. As if all the old 911 sensations had been numbed."
http://www.richardaucock.com/steerin...v-ford-mondeo/

[Trettiosjuan]

The 991 GT3 also with EPS has been well received though...

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

The 991 GT3 also with EPS has been well received though...

Sure, agreed. I was refuting Ubersuber's generalization that electric is better than hydraulic.

[Cope52]

Good luck finding tactility in any car this millenium. I found I lost steering feel when I canned the stock tires for Michelin Super Sports. taller 16s like you have a certainly a step in the right direction. But I think you are going in the wrong direction with AD08s. They have a square shoulder. Pirellis have a great over the road feel. Check out the Nero.

[Trettiosjuan]

I've got Goodyear balloon tyres now, very rounded. Very thin sidewall. Not very direct but there is a lot of grip information coming through the wheel, very confidence inspiring.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

Hello chassis experts.

Today I finally got the chance to test drive the GT86, with much anticipation and wanting to love it (and order it).
My findings basically agree with most things written in the reviews except one thing: I was disappointed in the steering feel.
Not the weight, not the centring, not the loading up in a corner, not the gearing. That was all perfect for me. I am talking tactility, the possibility too actually feel what is going on at the front wheels grip and direction wise, in all it's gradations. I just wasn't there for me even if reviewers talk about "bubbling with feel etc" and as a result, we did not "connect".

And unfortunately that is the single most important feature for me to getting this car.

But before dismissing the car completely, is there anything I can do to improve this? I really want to like this car for all it's other traits... thus any improvements without sacrificing comfort or changing to stiff and grippy tyres and ruining the playfullness when street driving the car? I do not plan to track the car often so driving pleasure on the street, even at moderate speeds, is no.1 for me.

One plan I already had is changing to lighter, wider 8" wheels with the stock now more stretched 215 tyre and adding some more toe (in or out, to be experimented with). Could this give me that tactile info I am missing, or shall I just surrender the search for the ulitmate tactile lightweight RWD with a kinda usuable rear seat and just get an almost as good M135i that is loads more practical?

Thank in advance for all constructive feedback.

I just installed the Delrin inserts from turn in concepts. They actually reduce vibration while turning in instantly. No over-corrections! There was always some hesitation cutting into a sharp corner, than backing off because the rubber decompresses and over-corrects. These are cheap and easy to install and make the biggest difference dollar for dollar, then anything else. You also need to re-align the car afterwards, since the rack might move some during the installation.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

These are cheap and easy to install and make the biggest difference dollar for dollar, then anything else.

Maybe if you install them yourself but if you have paid someone to install them and do an alignment then the GrimmSpeed bar is cheaper and made a bigger difference for me. Nice double post btw.