C&D: Aaron Robinson Scion Must Die!

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by YukiHachiRoku

Just make a good car and educated people with money will buy them. Seems like a simple concept to me.

[nibor33]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you are saying here, but let me try this.

I don't care about HIDs or heated seats, or a subpar OEM Nav system. Whatever the badge (Toyota, Subaru, Scion) I would have bought the spec that didn't have them regardless of the price differential.

If you had the option for the track (which seems to be what you are saying you are buying it for), wouldn't you have liked to have had the option to buy the base spec 86(regardless of badge) sold in Japan?

Seems like the same logic to me.

Sorry if I was confusing. Let me explain it a little further. If this is purchased to be a dedicated track car, why get a "nice" car with any features at all (see avatar)? If this is a daily driver, why the criticism over a few luxuries like HID (which I think is a safety feature at night), or heated seats (invaluable in the Midwest)?

I don't think it's fair for one person to criticize which options another person values. You don't like HID or heated seats, that's cool. I have never opted for an upgraded radio / speakers in a car, but I've also never said that someone shouldn't get that option if they ever wanted to track their car.

I did not buy the BRZ to be my track car. It is my "fun" daily driver. It replaced two cars for me, my previous dd along with an older sports car. I will likely track / autocross the BRZ occasionally, but it's not replacing my race car.

I'm not a badge whore in the least - look at my other posts and you'll see I've sold more "prestigious" cars to get this one. If this car was ONLY released as a Scion, or a Suzuki, I would have bought it. And I probably would have added HIDs and heated seats aftermarket.

Anyway, I feel like I'm somehow defending a position that I didn't set out to. I thought the article had an interesting perspective from somebody who is involved in the industry, and a lot more knowledgeable of marques and models than most of us. I expected discussion and disagreement (that's the fun of it), but I didn't expect feedback like "waste of time" or "who the f*** cares." I found that stuff to be rude.

The fact is, it didn't HAVE to be the case that the Scion was the base model and the Subaru was the middle and high trim levels. It could have just as easily been Toyota with three trim levels along side the Subaru - as seems to be happening in other major markets.

I have more interest in this issue from a "what will happen to Scion long term?" angle, and how that will affect the twins in terms of future generations. Dimman seems spot on with some of these analyses. It's possible that this car will help to create sustainability and brand image under Scion. If so, great.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by nibor33

Sorry if I was confusing. ..
I have more interest in this issue from a "what will happen to Scion long term?" angle, and how that will affect the twins in terms of future generations. Dimman seems spot on with some of these analyses. It's possible that this car will help to create sustainability and brand image under Scion. If so, great.

Sounds like we're on the same page, and basically saying the same thing. Neither wants to pay for things you don't see adding value, and added value differs from person to person.

I also agree with your last paragraph. That is why I found the article interesting. Not quite sure why all the hate by others but it is the Internet after all.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by pyro530

I do ... I would have preferred the Toyota badge. Because then we wouldn't have to deal with the stripped down Scion.

I probably could have gotten HID's and navigation from the factory instead of wishing for the upgraded parts or paying more in the long run to put them in the car myself.

No, instead you would be complaining about the $30k price tag.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by YukiHachiRoku

and it's hilarious when a lot of Scion buyers are older people with the money. hence the badge comment. Sometimes these corporations overthink things. Just make a good car and educated people with money will buy them. Seems like a simple concept to me.

Fixed it for you.

[truenosan]

I disagree with this article. Like many here that have said this already, I'm glad the FR-S isn't linked to a Celica. The last gen Celica was a joke of a car, and the ones that were amazing, was from the early 90's.

And from what I can see, it seems like Toyota has separated their 3 different brands very well. I think they should keep it this way.

[frsinpa]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I totally agree with him. This car should've been the Toyota Celica.

Agreed... but in the end - what does it really matter?

Whether it's called a Scion FR-S or a Toyota Celica, I still enjoy driving the car wither way and I'm 100% happy with my purchase.

Just as an aside: this car is about 10X better than the last-gen Celica anyways.

[waylonrobert]

I really don't care what badge it has on the outside. I think people should be more concerned with how it performs rather than the badge.

[Gregory Gawaran]

People who care about what other people think about the brand you drive are too image conscious. At the end of the day its your car that you love to drive. Who cares if its a scion Toyota or Subaru.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by Gregory Gawaran

People who care about what other people think about the brand you drive are too image conscious. At the end of the day its your car that you love to drive. Who cares if its a scion Toyota or Subaru.

Well put. I love my Scion and if the brand goes away, I'll have a collectors item like a datsun!

[wu_dot_com]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Yes, and Toyota managed to f#%k that up, too. From an enthusiast's standpoint, at least. Obviously it was a huge sales success.

it was a huge sales success becuase of the car, not the brand.

by naming it a Scion, it have lost many customer like me, who from the initial announcement back in 2008 wanted a Toyota.

guess what i own now? a limited BRZ. i would have bought a FT86 even if its a strip down version. i would have been gladly to pay more than a BRZ for a GT-86. but i will never see myself with a Scion anytime soon.

[pyro530]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

No, instead you would be complaining about the $30k price tag.

I would have spent $30k for the options I wanted, I just didn't like the look and the long wait on the BRZ.
Converting over to HID's is going to be expensive if and when I do it and converting to the automatic climate control might not even be possible.

[JDMrolla]

forget calling it a name from the past, its a whole new car! id be happy with toyota frs, just get rid of the scion name.

[frsinpa]

One thing we can all agree on: Car reviewers are all sorts of subjective and pretentious.

It's certainly a bad combo. Reminds me of the type of folks that you see hanging out at an expensive coffee shop.