Stingray vs. Modified Twin

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Well considering there are almost twice as many cars sold in the U.S. than Japan or any other first world country, there's a reason it's the focus for many manufacturers.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ted-countries/

The U.K. and Germany are super excited to get the Mustang, they're calling it a hit by moving ~27k units to Europe in a year according to this article, vs the >100k units they sold here over a similar period. (Which by the way makes it the best selling car over there)

http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...-is-paying-off

I can't speculate too heavily why the demand isn't there in other markets, other than broad strokes, other first world countries add additional tax on vehicles that use more fuel and/or have high emissions, turbo/supercharged, tax based on displacement etc. which makes high horsepower cars even more expensive than the US sticker price would allude to (not to mention much higher fuel costs). Add in the economic uncertainty and the current generation of Westerners in their 20's-30's are not doing as well as their parents it's no wonder it's not a great time for car sales. Oh, they also have functioning public transit that reduces the need for a vehicle.

After all, one of the reasons the 86 is a 2.0L is to be in a lower tax bracket in certain countries (Japan and Europe off the top of my head) and why a 2.2L or 2.5L from the factory won't happen.

For developing countries, China, India and Brazil primarily, the majority of the population does not have the wealth to afford a car like this, so that's a moot question. Most sales there are for super low end cars.

tl;dr Nobody buys more cars then 'murica, except those super cheap tin cans in 2nd world countries.

It's funny because on one hand you're pointing out (rightfully so) that most car makers focus on the wants/needs of the US market, and then on the other hand you're (again rightfully so) stating that the reason we got a crappy little 2.0 liter engine is because other countries have stringent taxes related to engine size.

It's so tragically sad that I almost want to laugh. All in all it's still BS IMO given they have a certified, developed, and available 2.0 liter turbo engine sitting on the shelf. (yeah yeah yeah there would still be R&D costs involved but Subaru has never been as successful or profitable as they are right now).

[Yardjass]

I mean, if we are gonna go there, a twin is complete overkill for daily duty too. Not very much room, high insurance rates, tiny fuel tank. We'd all be driving top selling transportation appliances if we cared about that.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

I mean, if we are gonna go there, a twin is complete overkill for daily duty too. Not very much room, high insurance rates, tiny fuel tank. We'd all be driving top selling transportation appliances if we cared about that.

More than enough room for me and my laptop.
I get 38MPG so there is loads of fuel in that tank.
My insurance is dirt cheap even with several extra perks on the policy.
It is an appliance car to the majority of the buyers no matter what the vocal part of the internet thinks.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

It's funny because on one hand you're pointing out (rightfully so) that most car makers focus on the wants/needs of the US market, and then on the other hand you're (again rightfully so) stating that the reason we got a crappy little 2.0 liter engine is because other countries have stringent taxes related to engine size.

It's so tragically sad that I almost want to laugh. All in all it's still BS IMO given they have a certified, developed, and available 2.0 liter turbo engine sitting on the shelf. (yeah yeah yeah there would still be R&D costs involved but Subaru has never been as successful or profitable as they are right now).

It's not like they'll just put a different engine in a car, the amount paperwork and development internal to Subaru alone is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that's IF they don't have to change ANYTHING else other than 'bolt engine X in' in the assembly manual, add in the work they have to do to get it tested, certified, print up marketing materials, it would cost millions of dollars just to roll ONE out of the factory and put it on a dealership floor for sale. Again, that's IF they don't have to change anything else about the design or assembly process of the car. If they have to change a torque spec on a bolt, install harness X instead of Y, a different transmission, the reality is it would cost tens of millions of dollars to create an "STI/TRD 86"

Shit looks easy to the average Joe, you or I could bolt on a turbo/supercharger, swap the right engine in, no problem, why can't they?

Because they are literally responsible for people's lives, and if they don't do their due diligence then they have blood on their hands and the company and their livelihoods are in jeopardy.

[Lynxis]

Back on track to the OPs question, I'd take a modified twin over a Stingray personally by virtue of it being more practical as a daily. More cabin space, back seats in a pinch and more storage for larger items. Also, I love the way a properly setup twin looks way more than the C7.

If I was going to spend $40k USD, converted to CAD is around 52.5k right now. Note that I searched nation wide and that matches the cheapest Stringray I could find in Canada although I'd have to go to Regina to get it.

Here is my 50k CAD build plan:

Used 2014 BRZ Limited with less than 50000kms - 20K

Wheels - 17x9 949 6UL for track and autocross use - 1.3k
Tires - 245/40r17 re71r or rival-s - 1k
Wheels - 17x8 whatevers for daily use as long as they fit over brakes - 0.8k
Tires - 225/45r17 UHP summer tires - .8k

Brakes - CSG spec Brembo GT - 3.2k
pads - Winmax W5 or equivalent for track - 0.6k
pads - Winmax W2 or equivalent for street - 0.4k
fluid - Torque RT700 or Castrol SRF - 0.1k

Coilovers - KWv3 or equivalent - 2.8k
Top hats - velox or something - 0.5k
RLCA - Velox or SPL - 0.8k
Alignment - -3 front, -2 rear - 0.2k

Headers - Ace 350 - 1.9k
Front pipe - JDL Ultraquiet - 0.6k
Catback - Perrin 2.5 resonated - 1.2k

FI - Jackson Racing SC C38 standard - 5.6k
Oil cooler - Jackson Racing - 1k
Tuning - ECUTek cable and license - 0.7k
Tune - Custom dyno tune - 1k
Clutch - Southbend Stage 2 daily - 1k

Total: 45.5k CAD. I would probably stop here and keep the remaining funds to work out issues as they appear. It's well known that the stock axles and transmission and engine bay heat management could be problems and there are solutions but they don't happen to everyone so why spend the money unless you have to.

Power goal is 280whp on 94 octane pump gas which is enough to rival domestic V8s power to weight ratio. The overall goal is to maintain a well balanced car that is perfectly streetable as a daily but can harass the likes of Corvettes and 911s and other really fast cars around the track given enough driver skill.

[gtpvette]

As a guy who has both,,, it's tought to beat the C7 Z51. The FRS is my commuter car,, 110 miles a day. Only mods are RCE yellows, 17x9 rims and a modified muffler. The ride of the FRS is much harsher than the Vette, the drive at 90+ MPH much better in the Vette, interior on the vette is a lot nicer, exhaust note on the vette with NPP is awsome. I've had a bunch of vettes over the years,, the C7 is the best. If you can swing it,,, buy the Vette. BTW I bought my 16' 1LT Z51 new for $49K as a left over with 12 miles on it. At the time a non-Z51 with a M7 could be had for $44 and some change. A 1LT C7 without a lot of options and a few miles should be less than $40K,,, they aren't always though.


All that being said,,, when I quit commuting there a very good possibility I'll put an LSx in the FRS. Go fiqure.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

Back on track to the OPs question, I'd take a modified twin over a Stingray personally by virtue of it being more practical as a daily. More cabin space, back seats in a pinch and more storage for larger items. Also, I love the way a properly setup twin looks way more than the C7.

Interesting. I have always felt the Corvette had a more spacious interior and the hatch is much more storage friendly than a trunk. I'd be interested to see some actual measurements, lol.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Interesting. I have always felt the Corvette had a more spacious interior and the hatch is much more storage friendly than a trunk. I'd be interested to see some actual measurements, lol.

Don't forget the rear seats go down in the twin so you really shouldn't underestimate it's storage capacity. Try moving a 40+ inch TV in a Vette...

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

Don't forget the rear seats go down in the twin so you really shouldn't underestimate it's storage capacity. Try moving a 40+ inch TV in a Vette...

I don't know that that would be a problem....

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I don't know that that would be a problem....

Ah you probably have a point, I forgot about the fact that it's a hatch as opposed to a trunk like the twins and is also a larger car overall lol. Oh well, I stand by the fact that you can carry 3-4 humans in a twin safely in a pinch, can't say that about a Vette.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I don't know that that would be a problem....

Oh to have the luxury of flat panel displays...

The Corvette's space is shallow which is the difficulty, here's a relevant test, put a set of track wheels & tires in it. A set of 17x9's fits in my 86 just fine. But your right, the flat area is pretty comparable to the two and the hatch makes stuff in & out a breeze.



My cousin brought a cooler to a track day in his C5, standard size cooler, one guy could lug it around, easier with two, it rode in the passenger seat.

[DandoX]

Which is more fun is a good question, totally in the eye of the beholder. The Corvette if your concerned with lap times. 86 if you want to be more sideways and silly.

if I had 40k I would buy a brand new 86 over a used corvette and add about 12k in add ons. Keep the rest of the money for other stuff like track days, tools, etc.

If I had more like 50k I would consider the stingray, but honestly with the mid engine corvette just around the corner the smart move would be to wait. When that comes out the current stingray could be bought for a cheaper price. Or depending on the pricing of this new mid engine corvette I would get that if its low enough entry price.

[gtpvette]

You guys are killing me about the cargo and or back seat space to carry other people. Does anyone really care about that?? I don't,,, but my wife drives a Silverado so I have options. :-)


I also want to add,, as an old guy,, the FRS is the current 240z. The only thing the FRS needs is more HP. In this day and age of 325HP V6 Camaros,, why can't the FRS have 300+ HP???? If they'd just up the HP we'd be good. A 350HP FRS would be soooo sweet. Who needs that $40K Focus??


As a sidebar,,, I pay more for insurance on the FRS than the Vette. How's that??.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by gtpvette

You guys are killing me about the cargo and or back seat space to carry other people. Does anyone really care about that??

My wife and I do. We fill it up when we go on road trips. It's great for that.

I also want to add,, as an old guy,, the FRS is the current 240z. The only thing the FRS needs is more HP. In this day and age of 325HP V6 Camaros,, why can't the FRS have 300+ HP???? If they'd just up the HP we'd be good. A 350HP FRS would be soooo sweet.

Tired complaint is tired. The FRS is way faster than a 240Z.