twins vs last gen cayman?

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by dowroa

Just curious.... why do you think the Alfa 4C is "worth it"?

Thanks!

Carbon fiber tub, gorgeous baby-supercaresque looks, very mechanical and Spartan, snarling demeanor. The only thing that sucks is no manual transmission and the fact that a lightly used Lotus gives you all of the same for half the cost. If these came in manual, I'd have my heart set on a used one when they have a few years to depreciate the way every Italian car does.

[WolfpackS2k]

I agree that they're gorgeous, but the powertrain is complete shit. The transmission is shit in comparison to Porsche's PDK and the engine is a POS.

Lotus Elise over 4C every time, especially if you can nab one with a K20A Honda swap.

[ajh88]

Always been curious about the 4Cs. What makes the engine and transmission distinct pieces of shit?

[WolfpackS2k]

From TopGear:

There’s just no getting round the shortfalls of a blown four-pot instead of something with more cylinders and more purity, and though the 4C sounds pretty fruity on the outside, inside it’s a bit flat and droney. The turbo’s also rather intrusive, and though the 4C is addictively fast – 0-62mph in 4.5 seconds, 160mph top speed – and doesn’t lack torque, it’s nowhere near as seamless in its delivery as, say, the old six-cylinder Porsche Cayman. Its TCT dual-shift gearbox is annoyingly obstructive, and overall it’s hard to have confidence in the 4C. It simply doesn’t drive as well as it should.

[ajh88]

Turbo lag doesn't bother me (just downshift) but that's a shame if the trans sucks.

[86 South Africa]

Read thread, sounds interesting...
Come back to see random arguments of camaro’s and Chevys and 4C’s...

I’m out now, this is just getting silly.
(Sorry OP)

[perryair]

i'll try to get it back on track:

so i test drive a 2014 cayman just for s and g's. my takeaways:
- man doesn't that cabin feel a lot more premium than a twin, even at almost base level
- even on the fairly short test drive you can feel how much grip the cayman suspension has
- the gearing issue is very noticeable, you know the extra power is there but you don't really seem to feel it unless you're downshifting and punching it at speed
- it has this magical ability for the suspension damping to have a fairly smooth ride and simultaneously shuttle you through curves
- the clutch feels soooooo looooooonnnnng but has a nice catch point
- even with 14 way adjustable seats, i had a bit of a time trying to find the 'perfect' driving position - which i was able to do literally within 2 minutes of the first ever time sitting in my brz
- my brz does feel more visceral and 'raw' if you will - more connected to the feeling of driving, which is good for the fun factor but perhaps wears on you a bit. i weekend warrior mine and im not 100% sure that id daily my brz if i only had one car
- god that sound of the 6cyl. it sounded magical and i was immediately sad about how my brz sounds like a tractor in comparison

in any case, two cars that accomplish a somewhat similar goal in different ways and in different pricepoints for sure. i do think that once the economics are a bit friendlier i'll move into a cayman but will sure enjoy the brz while im waiting.

[Cloud]

I was really into brz's for a while test drove about 3 of them, and I loved it, but then this past weekend I found a 07 Cayman S with 32k miles and in amazing condition, one test drive and that was all it took.

I own a cayman S now. No regrets.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ajh88

Turbo lag doesn't bother me (just downshift) but that's a shame if the trans sucks.

Downshifting doesn't fix turbo lag though.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by perryair

i'll try to get it back on track:
...
- even on the fairly short test drive you can feel how much grip the cayman suspension has

Thanks on getting back to the topic. Our cars were not designed with mind to have grip, but to lose grip. This is different on the revision models with the upgraded spring rates and the more planted rear. However, you can improve grip up to a level by changing spring rates, damping, tires etc. The Cayman suspension geometry is much more complex and I am sure this is also a main contributor. I am not sure if you are technically oriented, but check a video of how you can remove the rear suspension of a Cayman. A much more complex task comparing to our cars, where it is just a task of removing a few bolts.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xPSTKjEo5k"]Disassemble rear suspension Porche Cayman │porsche Cayman Tinkering - YouTube[/ame]

[mrg666]

After the new 245 tires I installed two weeks ago, grip has improved so much more compared to 225 Yokohama Advan tires. And those 225 tires were a big improvement in grip over the stock 215 tires. The car gives even more confidence on curves now. I think it is more about tires than suspension that determines the level of grip since my FR-S has the stiff rear springs that is supposed to be more "drifty" (or tail happy).

Originally Posted by perryair

i'll try to get it back on track:

so i test drive a 2014 cayman just for s and g's. my takeaways:
- man doesn't that cabin feel a lot more premium than a twin, even at almost base level
- even on the fairly short test drive you can feel how much grip the cayman suspension has
- the gearing issue is very noticeable, you know the extra power is there but you don't really seem to feel it unless you're downshifting and punching it at speed
- it has this magical ability for the suspension damping to have a fairly smooth ride and simultaneously shuttle you through curves
- the clutch feels soooooo looooooonnnnng but has a nice catch point
- even with 14 way adjustable seats, i had a bit of a time trying to find the 'perfect' driving position - which i was able to do literally within 2 minutes of the first ever time sitting in my brz
- my brz does feel more visceral and 'raw' if you will - more connected to the feeling of driving, which is good for the fun factor but perhaps wears on you a bit. i weekend warrior mine and im not 100% sure that id daily my brz if i only had one car
- god that sound of the 6cyl. it sounded magical and i was immediately sad about how my brz sounds like a tractor in comparison

in any case, two cars that accomplish a somewhat similar goal in different ways and in different pricepoints for sure. i do think that once the economics are a bit friendlier i'll move into a cayman but will sure enjoy the brz while im waiting.

[nikitopo]

Are you using 245 with stock springs? My point was that if you drive a car with a more sophisticated rear suspension, you'll realize that under certain conditions the car will handle better with same spring rates. If your geometry is simpler, you can solve issues by going stiffer, add more camber etc. It is just that you can advance up to a certain level. Going stiffer and stiffer is not an optimal solution, because you lose at the same time mechanical grip. After a point you need a more advanced multilink suspension.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Are you using 245 with stock springs? My point was that if you drive a car with a more sophisticated rear suspension, you'll realize that under certain conditions the car will handle better with same spring rates. If your geometry is simpler, you can solve issues by going stiffer, add more camber etc. It is just that you can advance up to a certain level. Going stiffer and stiffer is not an optimal solution, because you lose at the same time mechanical grip. After a point you need a more advanced multilink suspension.

I only stated that tires make a large difference in grip. I agree that suspension is important too. But grip difference of two different cars cannot be attributed only to suspension disregarding the tires. With a simple tire upgrade (in my case, wheels as well that increased the track width), grip can be improved. And, yes my suspension is still stock. No plans to upgrade it yet.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Thanks on getting back to the topic. Our cars were not designed with mind to have grip, but to lose grip. This is different on the revision models with the upgraded spring rates and the more planted rear. However, you can improve grip up to a level by changing spring rates, damping, tires etc. The Cayman suspension geometry is much more complex and I am sure this is also a main contributor. I am not sure if you are technically oriented, but check a video of how you can remove the rear suspension of a Cayman. A much more complex task comparing to our cars, where it is just a task of removing a few bolts.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Are you using 245 with stock springs? My point was that if you drive a car with a more sophisticated rear suspension, you'll realize that under certain conditions the car will handle better with same spring rates. If your geometry is simpler, you can solve issues by going stiffer, add more camber etc. It is just that you can advance up to a certain level. Going stiffer and stiffer is not an optimal solution, because you lose at the same time mechanical grip. After a point you need a more advanced multilink suspension.

Our cars weren't designed to lose grip but out of curiosity, what makes the cayman inherently better? I don't quite understand.