Interesting Findings on the Dyno - OpenFlash/Vishnu tuned

[post_break]

Originally Posted by s2d4

How's your Visconti tune? Or is it delicious now?

I run both. What's the point of your question? Hows Vish's Kraftwerks tune?

[themajesticone]

@DeliciousTuning Can you explain or point us in the right direction to understand why Dynojet and Mustang are so popular and "accepted" vs a Maha dyno that shows a perhaps unfavorable outcome? I am sure cost of the dyno equipment is a huge part of it but in an unbiased perspective I am curious why there is such a battle for what shows true numbers vs what doesn't.

Also, the philosophy behind statrting at 1500 rpm vs 2000 or 2500 / traction control / abs / etc etc etc

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by PMok

As OP mentioned (I was told same data) a stock BRZ makes ~137whp on this same dyno.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+20hps over stock on 91 sounds about right compared to 170ish vs 190ish when switching to E85 that I've seen on other dyno plots.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by themajesticone

Also, the philosophy behind statrting at 1500 rpm vs 2000 or 2500 / traction control / abs / etc etc etc

I personally see little point in starting low down. Producing more power at 1500 at full throttle is almost completely irrelevant. You'd never use full power that low in real life and due to cam timing, AFR and ignition timing differences its not even related to part throttle in the same range. I'd rather it be down a little power in that region if it never knocks, which this motor is at low RPM high load.

TCS needs to be off for a dyno pull, no need for the pedal dance though.

[MyRx]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

I don't think that dip is tune related. Looks like a dyno or Dyno operator problem to me. There is literally nothing in the tune file that would cause something like that. I'm willing to offer a free test of your car on a dynojet or mustang dyno to confirm.

Also a mustang dyno is capable of doing everything you describe with respect to the Maha dyno. And you wouldn't need to dyno your car to know if that problem existed as it would be about as obvious as a punch in the face.

Let's not jump the gun so easily here. Same dyno, same operator - 4 pulls consistent with the chart below. I'm not OFT tuned and with a completely different setup and tuner. Not to mention I've seen OFT tunes run on this same dyno, same operator and they don't have OP's dip. First to claim dyno and dyno operator problem is just bad nature. They are not even a vendor on this site to defend themselves.

FWIW OP, I've spoken to my tune-provider privately as well as other tuners privately. I've privately spoken and shared my tune/setup/results with others on this forum. I've heard comments from traction control to fuel to supercharger and so on and so on. My result is an anomaly by all means and fortunately, we are working to get it fixed, mechanically and electronically. I will return to the same dyno in hopes that my dip is solved. Luckily, I feel this dip only during WOT but under normal driving conditions intentionally exceeding 5800 rpms, my dip is non-existence. Did you do your research on your tune/results? There's plenty of OFT users around here that can either agree or disagree with your findings - seeing that your time stamped is 10.1.2014 4:43pm (today is 10.2.2014). Or did you really want to be the first kid on the block to non-intentionally throw local good vendors under the bus?

I've had parts missing from vendors on more than one occasion, my tunes not feeling right, I don't automatically start a thread the morning after claiming "WTH WTF!" I make a call to the vendor/tuner.

I'm glad you and Shiv can work it out privately. That should have been your first intent at 6pm last night. Better yet, start PMing a bunch of NorCal'ians and someone will reply "yah, I know him/her running OFT...here's his/her #...". Hell, didn't we have at least 2 OFT users last night at South Bay's meet @ Milpitas Starbucks and In-n-Out Burger. Milpitas is in your woods right. Shiv and Mann Engineering didn't deserve this publicity. You did get Shiv's attention which I think you would have received anyways if you made the call (minus this thread). And last wrench to throw into your plan, if you really wanted that other dyno, then you should have waited and called for it again.

[ck-GT86]

Originally Posted by MyRx

Let's not jump the gun so easily here. Same dyno, same operator - 4 pulls consistent with the chart below. I'm not OFT tuned and with a completely different setup and tuner. Not to mention I've seen OFT tunes run on this same dyno, same operator and they don't have OP's dip. First to claim dyno and dyno operator problem is just bad nature. They are not even a vendor on this site to defend themselves.

FWIW OP, I've spoken to my tune-provider privately as well as other tuners privately. I've privately spoken and shared my tune/setup/results with others on this forum. I've heard comments from traction control to fuel to supercharger and so on and so on. My result is an anomaly by all means and fortunately, we are working to get it fixed, mechanically and electronically. I will return to the same dyno in hopes that my dip is solved. Luckily, I feel this dip only during WOT but under normal driving conditions intentionally exceeding 5800 rpms, my dip is non-existence. Did you do your research on your tune/results? There's plenty of OFT users around here that can either agree or disagree with your findings - seeing that your time stamped is 10.1.2014 4:43pm (today is 10.2.2014). Or did you really want to be the first kid on the block to non-intentionally throw local good vendors under the bus?

I've had parts missing from vendors on more than one occasion, my tunes not feeling right, I don't automatically start a thread the morning after claiming "WTH WTF!" I make a call to the vendor/tuner.

I'm glad you and Shiv can work it out privately. That should have been your first intent at 6pm last night. Better yet, start PMing a bunch of NorCal'ians and someone will reply "yah, I know him/her running OFT...here's his/her #...". Hell, didn't we have at least 2 OFT users last night at South Bay's meet @ Milpitas Starbucks and In-n-Out Burger. Milpitas is in your woods right. Shiv and Mann Engineering didn't deserve this publicity. You did get Shiv's attention which I think you would have received anyways if you made the call (minus this thread). And last wrench to throw into your plan, if you really wanted that other dyno, then you should have waited and called for it again.

Really Jesse, you're seriously going to add to this after everything that's been discussed? Yes, I SHOULD have probably went to the meet to talk with everyone else, or I SHOULD have called Shiv and reported my findings, or I SHOULD have done this, or I SHOULD have done that. I get it -- broken record doesn't seem to want to stop. Just so you know, I had some trouble getting in touch with Shiv a couple months back, car wasn't running right and he requested I send him my ROM file for inspection. Sure enough, I did. Never got a response. Maybe you have better luck getting in touch with the right people. What else SHOULD I do now?

.ck

[cuddefred]

Wow, some people are taking this way too personally! Why not just take a chill pill and wait to see what the issue is? The OP and Shiv are getting together to work out the problem and will let us know in due course and I have no doubt it will all get sorted out. There is likely to be a simple and straight-forward answer to this and the rest of us are just speculating without having all of the information.

[MyRx]

Originally Posted by ck-GT86

Really Jesse, you're seriously going to add to this after everything that's been discussed? Yes, I SHOULD have probably went to the meet to talk with everyone else, or I SHOULD have called Shiv and reported my findings, or I SHOULD have done this, or I SHOULD have done that. I get it -- broken record doesn't seem to want to stop. Just so you know, I had some trouble getting in touch with Shiv a couple months back, car wasn't running right and he requested I send him my ROM file for inspection. Sure enough, I did. Never got a response. Maybe you have better luck getting in touch with the right people. What else SHOULD I do now?

.ck

Was this your way of getting his attention? If you did, you got other peoples' attention too. Good people that have no reason of being displaced on this site. That's all. I'm sorry that you got that from Shiv a couple months back but as you see, going public sometimes isn't the best intent, sometimes. I would have loved to gone public with my own troubles but persistence, emails, and calling did pay off. Not to mention, threats of losing a customer did net some good results. In the end, I moved on. But I kept those that provide solid reasons that this car remains to be fun. This thread, not you purposely, acknowledged that it's that provider's fault.


What you should do? Enjoy what you have. Get with Shiv to fix and re-fix to your liking. That takes patience and coordination. Then again, that's with a lot of the tuners and mod providers. A lot of patience.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Group hug needed

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

Group hug needed

Seriously. Maybe this should be locked until you've been able to look at his car, just to keep everyone from blowing up over assumptions and accusations.

edit: Actually Shiv, I do have a question for you. Why do MAHA dynos report differently? It's a roller dyno, from what the internet tells me. So what does it do that it reports differently from other roller dynos? Some people swear by them and others curse and shake their fist at them.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Seriously. Maybe this should be locked until you've been able to look at his car, just to keep everyone from blowing up over assumptions and accusations.

edit: Actually Shiv, I do have a question for you. Why do MAHA dynos report differently? It's a roller dyno, from what the internet tells me. So what does it do that it reports differently from other roller dynos? Some people swear by them and others curse and shake their fist at them.

A dyno is a dyno. They all effectively do the same thing. Where the differ is in calibration (how torque applied to the rollers translates to calculated wheel torque/wheel hp) and in testing methods (ramp-up time, gear selection, cooling/fans, etc,.) You can misuse any dyno. Some just make it easier than others. The reason why Dynojets gained so much popularity is not because they are a good tuning tool (they aren't) but because they operate on a very simple principal (roller of known weight being spun over a period of time with an engine RPM input). They really can't be fudged with (due to the fact they can't be electronically loaded) and they all ready about the same. Their consistency is what makes them a good measuring and comparing tool.

[gramicci101]

You'll have to forgive the very basic questions; I'm guessing at the math behind dyno usage.

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

A dyno is a dyno. They all effectively do the same thing. Where the differ is in calibration (how torque applied to the rollers translates to calculated wheel torque/wheel hp) and in testing methods (ramp-up time, gear selection, cooling/fans, etc,.)

So, assuming you can replicate testing methods (ramp-up time, fans, etc...), really the only difference between dynos is in the calibration, right? It seems like there should be one correct formula for calculating wheel torque/hp from the torque required to spin the rollers, where roller weight X and acceleration Y are mathed to = Z tq/hp output, so why would different brands be calculated differently?

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

Their consistency is what makes them a good measuring and comparing tool.

Which is really all any of them are supposed to do, correct? You take a baseline, make a change, take another run, and compare to see how successful the change was.

[themajesticone]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Which is really all any of them are supposed to do, correct? You take a baseline, make a change, take another run, and compare to see how successful the change was.

But are the changes that are being made solving anything or is it just pleasing the end user so it reads an inflated final result vs a real final result? What dictates a true result vs an illusory result? Just asking in general not putting you on the spot lol

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by themajesticone

But are the changes that are being made solving anything or is it just pleasing the end user so it reads an inflated final result vs a real final result? What dictates a true result vs an illusory result? Just asking in general not putting you on the spot lol

That would depend on the tuner. I would trust a lot of the tuners here and a few that have been banned from here to produce the best possible result while keeping safety and reliability in mind. Shiv, Delicious, JamesM, Full Blown, MAP, Evasive, etc... are not going to lean the crap out of the AFR just to produce big numbers.

If they make a change and discover that it didn't produce a beneficial result, I would think that they would change it back and try something different. I'm sure there's a lot more that goes into it beyond throwing darts at random, so chances are they'll produce a positive result pretty frequently.

If you get a shady tuner that is just interested in getting the highest number above all else and getting you out the door, then you may run into problems.