Has anyone had a warranty claim denied? Seized engine! Pics of teardown added 6/5

[SkullWorks]

the problem is the "tuners" you are referring to aren't.

Real tuners understand a significant amount about the combustion process, and weigh the options and intended purpose to provide you a long happy relationship with your motor, with out fear of damaging it at the limit from combustion issues.

when the customer doesn't understand what they are shopping for, it is really easy to sell them whatever you want. this strategy has been employed heavily on these boards and if this was my first "tuner" car and i had to rely on this forums vendors for "reliable guidance"....I can't imagine how things might end up.

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

Not really. The viability of aftermarket tunes which prevent the issue that most likely caused Mike's engine to grenade... I wouldn't say that is off-topic at all.

The discussion is conjecture and speculation. Not a single "tuner" has chimed in to add credit (or discredit) the vast allegations being spewed.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ecko04

The discussion is conjecture and speculation. Not a single "tuner" has chimed in to add credit (or discredit) the vast allegations being spewed.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2

What allegations? The discussion is about how easy it is to "fix" the ECU so that it becomes reliable for track applications, some think anybody who knows how to work Excel and can read wikipedia can do it, others would only trust a licensed engineer with decadesof relevant experience. (Don't attack my hyperbole here, it's a waste everybodies of time)

Most of the posts about "fixing" this with aftermarket tunes appeared to be tables with some values thrown in to retard the timing under high speed transients, it's valid to question whether the fix is as simple as that and whether or not to trust the current aftermarket. I'll admit I have not researched and as such have not commented on anybodies credentials, and neither has anyone else.

tl;dr it's the internet, recline your armchair and keep typing like you're the most knowledgible guy here until your engine blows up.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by ecko04

The discussion is conjecture and speculation. Not a single "tuner" has chimed in to add credit (or discredit) the vast allegations being spewed.

Ha! What on this forum isn't conjecture and speculation?

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

[cut useless babble]
Most of the posts about "fixing" this with aftermarket tunes appeared to be tables with some values thrown in to retard the timing under high speed transients, it's valid to question whether the fix is as simple as that and whether or not to trust the current aftermarket. I'll admit I have not researched and as such have not commented on anybodies credentials, and neither has anyone else. [cut more useless babble]

Redacted...no point in cluttering the thread further.

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

Ha! What on this forum isn't conjecture and speculation?

Haha! touché touché carry on.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ecko04

You also haven't read the last few pages of this thread. Some of the comments question whether a tuner can actually tune at all, what it entails, what defines trustworthiness, etc. The comments aren't adding to the overall body of knowledge around DI failure, which is the point I made.

I had a somewhat short response typed out but in the spirit of forum etiquette, cheers. I'll go hunting for those allegations I apparently missed upon my multiple readings of this thread.

:happy0180:

Edit: Found the one infringing post you're referring to, didn't realize that it actually targeted a group, I thought it was pretty vague on who the post was bashing.

[regal]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

My tuners' understanding of combustion and engines is FAR more advanced than your average enthusiast; most of them also have advanced degrees as well.

They also wouldn't have the large client base that they have if they were regularly blowing up engines.

These are the experts I'm referring too. Not the guys peddling 10hp gain tunes.

A good track tune is going to be more reliable than the Factory tune. I've worked for OEM's for over 20 years. I understand the constraints that the OEM's have with regard to tuning and long term durability isn't at the top of the priority list like customers assume. Sacrifices have to be made.

This car is a perfect example where meeting Tada's (marketing) demand for 200 hp and meeting varying world wide emissions ended up with a tune that doesn't hold up when driving in the power band.

Most of te vendors selling tunes don't have an understanding of what a track tune is let alone years of experience with Subaru engine management. But there are experts out there, who aren't shackled by emission requirements which force the car into dangerous lean areas prone to detonation.

Hopefully a good track tune will be shared and we can move away from replacing DI seals. I have little hope for anything from Toyota, its outside their business model. Not their core competence to deal with drivers who enjoy driving the car in its power band (the less than 1% of owners.)

[Marrk]

^^That's depressing. An OEM tune that sacrifices HP in favor of emissions is understandable. But an OEM tune that breaks the car I don't get.

Maybe your argument is wrong, regal (with all due respect).

[choi0706]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Pics from teardown


Engine from the bottom. Connecting rod on cyl 2 has seen some heat...


Engine from the front


Cylinders 2 and 4


Damaged collar (next 3 photos are on the same "pair" of injectors)


Collar completely gone and injector... scorched?


Another angle


Other two injectors. This one is a bit damaged as well








Oil pan...

pictures dont work?

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by Marrk

^^That's depressing. An OEM tune that sacrifices HP in favor of emissions is understandable. But an OEM tune that breaks the car I don't get.

Maybe your argument is wrong, regal (with all due respect).

OEM tunes sacrifice horsepower for emissions on every pollution controlled vehicle sold in this country.

Luckily they usually get away without having to sacrifice much, if any, reliability at the same time. In this case, we're unlucky because the OEM very commonly generates lazy ass tunes. If they weren't sacrificing reliability for a cheaper tune we'd have a 91 octane minimum which can be met everywhere in the united states with the caveat that 90 octane is a perfectly valid choice in high altitude cities. (like nearly all the other high octane required vehicles sold here)

It really is that simple.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by choi0706

pictures dont work?

Or maybe they finally got themselves a lawyer.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Sellout

OEM tunes sacrifice horsepower for emissions on every pollution controlled vehicle sold in this country.

Luckily they usually get away without having to sacrifice much, if any, reliability at the same time. In this case, we're unlucky because the OEM very commonly generates lazy ass tunes. If they weren't sacrificing reliability for a cheaper tune we'd have a 91 octane minimum which can be met everywhere in the united states with the caveat that 90 octane is a perfectly valid choice in high altitude cities. (like nearly all the other high octane required vehicles sold here)

It really is that simple.

You mean "lazy ass tunes" are common with Subaru? They have a history of this? (I ask because I really know nothing about Subaru.)

[infinite012]

Originally Posted by Marrk

You mean "lazy ass tunes" are common with Subaru? They have a history of this? (I ask because I really know nothing about Subaru.)

Do some research into STI ringland/piston 4 issues and you'll see that the issue stems from the OEM tuning during OL/CL transition.

What that means is something beyond my grasp.