Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Robftss]

To summarize, raising intake pressure when you haven't used all of the N/A's present availablity is a waste of stored electrical energy. If you want to feel more power, plug in a sprintbooster. When all the N/A is used up.... the FTS is deployed. Of course your brain well adapt to the quicker sprintbooster and you'll be back to where you started

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by Calum

I think I may have miss understood then. I'm wondering if the present setup could work with 36 volts in an effort to get more up top. With the right controls I think it would be nice to be able to run a constant boost pressure so that the system could keep making a flat torque curve. But you say that running higher voltage wont work for us, so I'm wonder why. Is it because the compressor can flow more, but can't create more pressure? Or perhaps is the motor capable of higher speeds, but not more torque?

And I'm wondering about a circuit breaker for safety. Something like the ones I use for stereo installs. http://www.delcity.net/store/High-Am...akers/p_167861

Calum,

Presently it is a matched system of all components. It is like plugging in 240 vac into a 120 vac stereo, not rated for that. Like all high speed machines there are comprimises, it's not just change one thing...done. I have made much higher psi units but the cost/gain have diminishing returns. But not to worry, me and my staff are always fab-ing up new stuff. To be clear though, the present results provide a robust maintenance free system.

I too like giant breakers, but there are better ways

[autobrz]

Here is a scenario for why more power at partial throttle "makes sense". I'm on the freeway going 70mph. I want to make a pass at 85mph without downshifting. If I had a v6 or a fast spooling turbo motor, I'd be able to do that easily. With the ESC, the car would still feel really torqueless up to anywhere below WOT, especially if I'm in the torque dip. So instead of asking the motor to put out 140lb-ft of torque at say 70% throttle, my only options are 115lb-ft at 90% or 175 lb-ft at WOT. Intuitively, going WOT feels like I want to go really fast when that is not my intention but my only choice. Hope this makes sense.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by autobrz

Here is a scenario for why more power at partial throttle "makes sense". I'm on the freeway going 70mph. I want to make a pass at 85mph without downshifting. If I had a v6 or a fast spooling turbo motor, I'd be able to do that easily. With the ESC, the car would still feel really torqueless up to anywhere below WOT, especially if I'm in the torque dip. So instead of asking the motor to put out 140lb-ft of torque at say 70% throttle, my only options are 115lb-ft at 90% or 175 lb-ft at WOT. Intuitively, going WOT feels like I want to go really fast when that is not my intention but my only choice. Hope this makes sense.

I see where you are going with this and after driving the system for a couple weeks i have input on it.

Going WOT doesn't result in a CRAZY increase in speed, especially in higher gears because the effect of that torque is spread across the much larger gear.

Yes you are limited to 115tq in the dip and 180 torque at WOT but the application is so smooth and doesn't feel like you are FLYING in the higher gears. There is a nice surge of torque.... for passing as a example.

Gears 4-6 are just smooth torque application as if you had a large v6, especially when in the 2.5 to 4.5k rpm range.

The gears that are very noticeable are 1, 2 and 3.... you press the throttle there and once the system kicks in smoothly you are moving at very good pace but it is 100% manageable.

Im trying to reiterate to everyone here that the application of this new found torque is very smooth and feels natural, just as it would if you had the AVO turbo kit or something like that. You drive the car normal and if you want more you go until the charger kicks in and that new found torque transfers to the road seamlessly. No drama, just a bigger feeling engine making you haul ass down the road.

You have to be careful because 4th really is a dangerous gear on the highway, gear down to 4th at 60mph and hold that for what seems a couple seconds and you are going 100mph.

It is a BLAST, and i cant wait to get the input from more people running this on the road. I cant imagine what this thing is like a sea level. Right now we have almost identical results the the innovative kit(that posted 0-60 and whatnot) and we are WAY higher up in terms of altitude.

Super exciting stuff.... Rob is a great guy to work with and i know there is some new stuff coming down the pipe

[Toma]

I think some of you guys are overthinking this and letting ur imaginations and assumptions run away with you before you've gone for a ride.

Its not like Mad Max where they screw the nitrous open and all hell breaks loose lol.

There's a lot to be said for the old kiss formula. Keep it simple stupid. Lol.

Or for the Star Trek fans....Kirk: Scotty, you're as good as your word. Scotty: Aye, sir. The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by autobrz

Here is a scenario for why more power at partial throttle "makes sense". I'm on the freeway going 70mph. I want to make a pass at 85mph without downshifting. If I had a v6 or a fast spooling turbo motor, I'd be able to do that easily. With the ESC, the car would still feel really torqueless up to anywhere below WOT, especially if I'm in the torque dip. So instead of asking the motor to put out 140lb-ft of torque at say 70% throttle, my only options are 115lb-ft at 90% or 175 lb-ft at WOT. Intuitively, going WOT feels like I want to go really fast when that is not my intention but my only choice. Hope this makes sense.

Very good scenario, I would like to add: The DR @ 6"WC will be activated in this situation and provide addition TQ (next time on the dyno we'll try this with WOT switch disabled and get confirmed numbers) somewhere in the 8-15 ftlb+ range, so close to your target scenario, and can be maintained.
The difference between 140 or 175 ft-lbs will be felt at this gearing and speed, but not epic. There simply isn't enough full cycle energy in a stock alternator, not theory, empirically tested with the help of Rocky Mountains passes next door

[fenton]

Went out for a drive with my brother in law tonight. He has a bmw 135i.

Was very surprised at how well I kept up. From a dig we were dead even for two gears with him pulling a bit on the third gear of course. Before stock this was absolute rape.

What was even more surprising was the 3rd gear roll on at about 3800rpm. Cars were even for the first little bit with him of course pulling in the top end. 135i is a crazy fast car. He has a downpipe back exhaust as well so I was very happy with the result.

Once he put his stage 1 map on the torque was overwhelming where he would pull constantly.

We did a me second gear at 3500 rpm and him in third and I pulled a couple cars ahead off the start and stayed ahead for most of third as well.

Anyways he was impressed because when we did pulls stock it was all taillights and 10 car lengths by the end of 3rd lol.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

[Dustin2JZ]

This is looking very interesting to me.
What kind of cost are we talking about with a setup like this.

[nonicname]

keeping up with a 135i is all I need to know to be convinced this is AWESOME.
eventhough it eventually ended up pulling away from you it's impressive for such a simple set up.
this is literally the best bang for the buck application hands down.

we need videos!

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by fenton

Went out for a drive with my brother in law tonight. He has a bmw 135i.

Was very surprised at how well I kept up. From a dig we were dead even for two gears with him pulling a bit on the third gear of course. Before stock this was absolute rape.

What was even more surprising was the 3rd gear roll on at about 3800rpm. Cars were even for the first little bit with him of course pulling in the top end. 135i is a crazy fast car. He has a downpipe back exhaust as well so I was very happy with the result.

Once he put his stage 1 map on the torque was overwhelming where he would pull constantly.

We did a me second gear at 3500 rpm and him in third and I pulled a couple cars ahead off the start and stayed ahead for most of third as well.

Anyways he was impressed because when we did pulls stock it was all taillights and 10 car lengths by the end of 3rd lol.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Sounds like you've already gone through 20 bottles of Nitrous!!

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Robftss

Sounds like you've already gone through 20 bottles of Nitrous!!

I dont even want to know how much N20 i would have went though.

Its so tempting to always squeeze the throttle.

With the 20+ dyno pulls and countless 0-60 0-120 and 60-120 in the last 3 weeks i have still averaged 25mpg.

The 135i is always going to be faster once aerodynamic drag is greater than the drag of your cars weight but the fact that i am keeping up to that point is very exciting for a 25k car with a electric supercharger.

FRS
206hp / 2700lbs = 13.1lbs per hp to the ground

BMW 135i n55
270hp / 3400lbs = 12.8lbs per hp to the ground


If and when we get this into the 225 to 230 hp range its going to be game on probably up to 120mph or so

[ft_sjo]

Peak power doesn't mean a lot when racing, which is why the BMW trashed you (10 car lengths up to 90 mph?!).. It's the spread of torque that matters.

This kind of conversion appears most useful around town for mid-range torque, not flat out power. The big insta-torque peak you get will make you feel like it's going super fast, but in reality it's unlikely to be going much faster than stock once you're actually shifting near the red line.

If you went drag racing with this set up, then that top ~2000rpm power band doesn't have a huge amount more torque than stock.

I'm not shitting on the idea, just saying it's more for town drivers than racers. At the moment.

[Dustin2JZ]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Peak power doesn't mean a lot when racing, which is why the BMW trashed you (10 car lengths up to 90 mph?!).. It's the spread of torque that matters.

This kind of conversion appears most useful around town for mid-range torque, not flat out power. The big insta-torque peak you get will make you feel like it's going super fast, but in reality it's unlikely to be going much faster than stock once you're actually shifting near the red line.

If you went drag racing with this set up, then that top ~2000rpm power band doesn't have a huge amount more torque than stock.

I'm not shitting on the idea, just saying it's more for town drivers than racers. At the moment.

That's not completely correct.
Sure torque has a huge role in drag racing but so does horse power. Torque is what is used to get the car moving but once your midway through a gear that's when horsepower is really being used to keep pushing you. That's why pretty much every motor is designed with Low end torque and High end horsepower.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Dustin2JZ

That's not completely correct.
Sure torque has a huge role in drag racing but so does horse power. Torque is what is used to get the car moving but once your midway through a gear that's when horsepower is really being used to keep pushing you. That's why pretty much every motor is designed with Low end torque and High end horsepower.

Have you seen the dyno charts? This conversion is making ~10% more at the top end. That's not exactly going to blow you away down the drag strip.