BRZ and FR-S Sales Numbers Thread

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

US sales figures first half 2016 Small Sports car segment:




Source: http://left-lane.com/us-sales-first-...ports-segment/

What the hell is a Buick Cascada?

[86geek]

Here yah go....never heard of it as well....

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What the hell is a Buick Cascada?

It is not a sports car... like a lot of the other cars on that list.


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[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What the hell is a Buick Cascada?

Opel Cascada : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Cascada

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

US sales figures first half 2016 Small Sports car segment:




Source: http://left-lane.com/us-sales-first-...ports-segment/

If these are the contenders, I have no regrets, I would pick my FR-S again. I agree with this article; Toyota and Subaru dealers are not interested in selling twins over their other models. My Toyota dealer had nothing good to say about the FR-S I bought from them other than its good looks. The salesman even said it was just a good "weekend" car. But I was not windows shopping; I knew what I wanted. After buying FR-S, driving any other car has become just a chore for me.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Profitability is based on selling the number of units planned and built not necessarily on building more units. I repeat as long as they are making what they planned and selling what they make they are fine with it. Sales numbers are something that far too many people focus on since it seems to show trending. It can be very deceiving wh n viewed on it's own. Specialty cars are never built in massive numbers and never will be. They just are not planned as money makers. If they ever start making the 86 or BRZ in Corolla numbers we can kiss the car as we know it goodbye.

Price aside the 86 will still continue to be sold in greater numbers than the BRZ for a few reasons. Right off the bat Toyota has a much larger dealer base than Subaru. I figured it out to be almost 5 to 1. There is no way Subaru can push enough cars through there dealers to outsell Toyota. The second big thing is that Subaru just does not seem to be interested in selling these things in the first place. They want them to draw people in the door where they can sell them a nice high margin WRX or STi.

Unless people have inside info straight from corporate Toyota there is no need to run around screaming the sky is falling based purely on sales number.

I had to go do a different state just to test drive one..

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[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by mrg666

If these are the contenders, I have no regrets, I would pick my FR-S again. I agree with this article; Toyota and Subaru dealers are not interested in selling twins over their other models. My Toyota dealer had nothing good to say about the FR-S I bought from them other than its good looks. The salesman even said it was just a good "weekend" car. But I was not windows shopping; I knew what I wanted. After buying FR-S, driving any other car has become just a chore for me.

My dealer says the same. It is a "weekend" car. By the way, I didn't comment anything when posting the sales figures. I would also pick my BRZ again, but it looks that we are a minority.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

My dealer says the same. It is a "weekend" car. By the way, I didn't comment anything when posting the sales figures. I would also pick my BRZ again, but it looks that we are a minority.

I'm using mine as a daily but I'd prefer it as a weekend car, especially in the winter.

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[mrg666]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

but it looks that we are a minority.

Happily so!

I think 86/BRZ is aesthetically and technically one of the most significant cars designed in the last several decades. I am considering myself so lucky to own and to be able to afford one.

[why?]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

I'm using mine as a daily but I'd prefer it as a weekend car, especially in the winter.

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why? Get a good set of winter tires and you will never want to drive anything else in the snow. All the stuff we love about driving it in the dry makes it excellent at driving it in snow and ice with a great set of winter tires.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by why?

why? Get a good set of winter tires and you will never want to drive anything else in the snow. All the stuff we love about driving it in the dry makes it excellent at driving it in snow and ice with a great set of winter tires.

It's not that I can't or that it won't be good so much as I would rather keep it clean from the road salt and whatnot and just buy some AWD winter beater to abuse I guess. I leave for the Caribbean soon anyway in so she'll be garaged for part of the winter anyhow though which is why I haven't really worried about it too much. (My car before this was a lifted turbo WRX so yeah I miss it when it's anything but sunny out)

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[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Profitability is based on selling the number of units planned and built not necessarily on building more units. I repeat as long as they are making what they planned and selling what they make they are fine with it.

Don't disagree with any of that - but my point is that Toyota may not sell the volume of 86s they plan to with its new higher price and now less attractive look relative to the BRZ.

World-wide, if 86s start to sit around for many weeks on dealer lots the inevitable discounting will make Toyota think carefully about offering future versions. And there's obviously some point below which (for a given sales price) sales cannot dip if unit profitability is to be maintained, this is is no halo car for Toyota that might justify sustained losses - the new Supra will assume that role.

The disproportionate dealer ratio you mention should not be much of a constraint on BRZ sales in urban areas where 80% of the population is based, and where the average resident is within 1/2 an hour or so of a Subaru dealer - but it could be an issue out in the rural areas. Even with the 2016s, despite having 5 times the number of dealerships here (if your claim is correct), Toyota/Scion had only 50-100% more twin sales by month than Subaru recently.

The three Subie dealers I have dealt with in the GTA have seemed more than eager to sell me a BRZ; this notion that Subaru dealerships don't care about selling BRZs seems apocryphal and unsubstantiated. Of course neither company does much to advertise the car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Don't disagree with any of that - but my point is that Toyota may not sell the volume of 86s they plan to with its new higher price and less attractive look relative to the BRZ. If 86s start to sit around for many weeks on dealer lots the inevitable discounting will make Toyota think carefully about offering future versions. This is no halo car for Toyota - the new Supra will assume that role. And I did say that BRZs outselling 86s would only happen if Subaru Canada has access to the needed inventory should demand rise appreciably.

The disproportionate dealer ratio you mention should not be much of a constraint on BRZ sales in urban areas where 80% of the population is based, and where the average resident is within 1/2 an hour or so of a Subaru dealer - but it could be an issue out in the rural areas. Even with the 2016s, despite having 5 times the # of dealerships (if your claim is correct), Toyota/Scion had only 50-100% more twin sales than Subaru. And the three Subie dealers I have dealt with in the GTA have seemed more than eager to sell me a BRZ; this notion that Subaru dealerships don't care about selling BRZs seems apocryphal and unsubstantiated. it's true neither company does much to advertise the car.

Yes, if cars start to sit at dealers the whole picture changes. That is exactly what I have said all along. The whole look thing is subjective and wether you or I don't like it is meaningless. The general public may love the new look and the cars could fly off the shelf. That remains to be seen.

When I say that Subaru isn't all that interested I am talking at a corporate level not the individual dealerships. How many BRZ ads have you ever seen? I know that my answer to that is a big fat zero. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. They have never pushed the car but the rest of their entire line up shows up everyplace I look. I know that this is a fan forum so the concept that everybody that buys one isn't an enthusiast seems odd but more of these cars are bought by Joe or Jill public that fell across it at a dealer than those that followed it. That is simply the way things go. I am a great example of that since although I read something about the car back in 2010 I never followed it. The car I own is literally the first one I ever saw in pictures or real life. This is how most of these cars were bought not by the fanboy that followed it through development and production. Taking that thought into account if Scion sold as many as they did with their very small dealer base then Toyota should easily surpass that. Subaru will still take a back seat since they just won't have as many middle aged housewives walking onto a lot and saying "Oh that is cute. I love that colour" and that is how way more cars are sold.

[Sport-Tech]

^ I thought every Canadian Toyota dealer had its own Scion corner- if that's not the case then having the 86 in many more dealerships will drive those impulse/conversion sales numbers up, no doubt about it.

The loss of the FR-S price advantage will have some negative impact on 86 volume, hard to know how much. As to looks, seems the majority here see the refresh as a step backward on the Toyota side only. (If there was a poll on this, I missed it.) Does this reflect the view of the larger car-buying public? Hard to know but seems plausible - there is a general disdain for weirdly shaped front grill openings (e.g. see: Lexus).

Subaru did run a few TV spots a few years ago, but nothing lately. Toyota's been no better though.