Subaru's FT-86 STI Coupe Spied Testing In Southwest!

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I was under the impression that the new Impreza was 5 x 114.3 so the 5 x 100 doesn't make sense. Or is it just the STI and WRX now?

Sorry, Subaru still make under power cars that isn't worth upgrading to 5x114.3.

My guess is they're using cheap NA Impreza parts. That car is pretty much a guinea pig, so gotta replace the parts when it breaks... and STI parts aren't really cheap (even though they make it themselves).

When they actually have final production chassis test driving the Nur THEN we can prob do some math and so forth on bolt patterns & other fun stuff

[Tougerenner]

Yes, Subaru should just move to all 5x114, it would lean out their manufacturing process to only have to make one bolt pattern....

Anyways, the 5x100 suby bearings suck. It is the reason that only the 2004 STi was 5x100, of the US models. On my WRX I put on STi Brembo take offs, biggest mistake EVAR, I only kept them on for a month or so. The main reason being was pad knock back, there are threads on NASIOC about the topic. It is very very scary to experience and have no idea what is going on other than my brake pedal just hit the floor and im not stopping. It should be noted that knock back typically shows up while driving spiritedly on the track and in the canyons.

It would be my guess that if the FT86 is released with no brembos it will be 5x100, if brembos are an option or come standard on a higher performance model then the car might be 5x114. Thinking about it, the mule being 5x100 make sense since its missing brembos. While yes the concept that has been showcased did have 4 pot brakes, the 06-07 WRX came with the FHI 4/2 pot brakes from the GC/GM generation STi and it never had a problem with knock back. I have herd that some other BBKs have the knock back issue on the 5x100 too.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Tougerenner

Yes, Subaru should just move to all 5x114, it would lean out their manufacturing process to only have to make one bolt pattern....

Anyways, the 5x100 suby bearings suck. It is the reason that only the 2004 STi was 5x100, of the US models. On my WRX I put on STi Brembo take offs, biggest mistake EVAR, I only kept them on for a month or so. The main reason being was pad knock back, there are threads on NASIOC about the topic. It is very very scary to experience and have no idea what is going on other than my brake pedal just hit the floor and im not stopping. It should be noted that knock back typically shows up while driving spiritedly on the track and in the canyons.

It would be my guess that if the FT86 is released with no brembos it will be 5x100, if brembos are an option or come standard on a higher performance model then the car might be 5x114. Thinking about it, the mule being 5x100 make sense since its missing brembos. While yes the concept that has been showcased did have 4 pot brakes, the 06-07 WRX came with the FHI 4/2 pot brakes from the GC/GM generation STi and it never had a problem with knock back. I have herd that some other BBKs have the knock back issue on the 5x100 too.

Toyota do make 4/2 brakes. It might come w TRD brakes or the brakes that came on the autoshow

[Tougerenner]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Toyota do make 4/2 brakes. It might come w TRD brakes or the brakes that came on the autoshow

I guess in a long winded way I was trying to say.

For the Impreza at least till model year 2007, I dont know about the new ones but I have a feeling nothing has changed

5x100 + side push caliper(as seen on mule)= ok
5x100 + FHI 4 pots(similar size to the concepts) = ok
5x100 + STi brembo = No good
5x114 + any brake = ok

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Tougerenner

I guess in a long winded way I was trying to say.

For the Impreza at least till model year 2007, I dont know about the new ones but I have a feeling nothing has changed

5x100 + side push caliper(as seen on mule)= ok
5x100 + FHI 4 pots(similar size to the concepts) = ok
5x100 + STi brembo = No good
5x114 + any brake = ok

Nothing did changed. Cuz those FHI (well technically you can put Nissan's 4/2 pots calipers in there) are pretty good, so FHI thought, there's no reason to upgrade em... til they found out that GD series are ridiculously heavy, resulting to relying on Brembos.

As for the pad knock back stuff, just wondering did you just replace the calipers and not other parts (like brake boost, lines & etc)?

[Tougerenner]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

As for the pad knock back stuff, just wondering did you just replace the calipers and not other parts (like brake boost, lines & etc)?

Outside of the calipers and rotors the WRX and STI brake systems are pretty similar, IIRC there is differences in the ABS unit and how it reacts, other than that its all the same. My braking system was in good repair and working fine when I installed the brembos.

When driving in a straight line it felt fine and stopped really good, in fact the pedal with the brembos was firmer than the FHI 4/2. After some cornering thats when it would show up and then the pedal would just hit the floor and i would have to triple pump the brakes to get the pads back to rotor and build pressure back up, and after that if you continued in a straight line the brakes were fine.

For the knockback, I had SS lines at the time already, I bleed and rebleed the brakes properly even had it machine bleed, when that didn't work I rebuilt the caliper with all new seals, when that didnt work i went back to the stock FHI 4/2 and that solved the problem.

Knock back was one of the main reasons that the STi went to 5x114 in 05, and got differently designed bearings.

Naturally, none of the components on our cars are 100% rigid. Therefore, as these dynamic lateral loads are applied, all of the components reacting the cornering forces must deflect to some degree. In English, when we throw our cars into a corner, stuff bends. It’s not desirable, but that’s the reality of the situation. You can pay more money to make stuff bend less, but it will always bend to some degree. This is where knockback is born.

As the wheel, hub, and wheel bearing deflect during cornering, the rotor hat sandwiched in-between is forced to go along for the ride. Because the caliper (red in the illustration) is attached to a more rigid suspension component – the upright – the parallelism between the rotor face (gray in the illustration) and the brake pads (yellow in the illustration) is altered. In so many words, the deflection of the rotor relative to the brake pads actually forces the brake pads away from one another. This spreading action pushes the caliper pistons (blue in the illustration) back into their bores a tiny amount (horizontal green arrows in the center illustration) so that when the deflection goes away (when the cornering event is over) there is not enough springback in the piston seal to push everything back together again (green arrows in the rightmost illustration). The pads are now pushed off the rotor and will stay put until the brakes are next applied.

Knockback in action – before, during, and after cornering



Unfortunately, the next time the brakes are applied the initial travel will be used exclusively to push the pistons back up against the pads and rotor. This requires forcing fluid into the system, so the pedal feels as if it drops away toward the floor. Because this action does not build any line pressure, no torque is generated and for a brief moment the car will not slow down. Yikes!

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml

[nate89]

Yikes is right lol. I know some people swap out bigger brakes from larger cars of the same brand. That way everything bolts up and works correctly, but without the cost of a big brake kit. I know there were some toyota examples, but I'm too tired to think clearly.

[Matador]

Lots of examples. Toyotas, Nissans and Hondas back in the day were practically like lego toys.

[70NYD]

Another article regarding the mule.
apparently it is RWD only acording to this..
interesting though as this is the 1st article i have read in who knows how long that doesnt mention dates (apart from the schedule being due later this year)

Subaru's top secret sportscar that is being jointly developed with Toyota has been caught on camera undergoing testing.
It is so secret, in fact, that not even the boss of Subaru Australia has seen the car -- apart from these images of it wearing a camouflage.
Speaking at the launch of the new WRX STI sedan in Melbourne this week, the boss of Subaru Australia Nick Senior told the Carsales Network the Subaru coupe is on a wishlist but not confirmed for sale locally.
"I've still not seen it; we know very little about it, and we're not guaranteed to take it," he said.
"The technical details, the production schedule, the timing are all still being finalised. We expect to hear more before the end of the year and we'll make a decision then."
There is speculation that the Subaru version of the Toyota FT-86 -- which is yet to be shown, even in concept guise -- will be powered by a 2.0-litre turbocharged Subaru engine, and be rear-drive only.
"That is one of the things we've got to look at," Senior commented.
"We have to consider if it is the right thing for the brand in Australia. We have marketed heavily all-wheel drive and as we understand it the car will be rear-drive.
"We need to assess whether it fits with the current Subaru philosophy in Australia. But rest assured we will look at it at the first opportunity."
Senior said it would not be necessary to change Subaru's branding or dealership Corporate Identity, even though it strongly promotes its exclusively all-wheel drive line-up, and slogans such as "all-wheel drive is all we do".
"It looks like a fun car and Subaru is all about driver enjoyment. If it fits in with that we'll look at it."
In the meantime, test cars continue to clock up development kilometres. As yet, no on-sale date has been nominated for Japan, Europe or North America.

from http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2010...r-oz-yet-21516

[PHATsuby]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but it now seems very likely given other photos.

I am almost 100% certain the headlights on that mule are Supra headlights. Wasn't there talk of there being a test mule disguised as a supra?

Ben

[BoostJunkie]

No they are not supra head lights, if they are then it looks like they baked them and pulled them apart to put in some amber and change the projector main light to what ki da looks like a halo projector light, which is possible but I doubt it plus they would have covered up 50% of the head light with body panels

[nate89]

You can tell they're WRX headlights. No big surprise there...

[PHATsuby]

yea I guess my eyes were deceiving me. I think I was viewing something else that I thought was the actual outline of the light that did not resemble the wrx.

Carry on...

Ben