Is your car fast?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Mike would have done better still had he not been burdened with a passenger. Even a small passenger will markedly impair acceleration, braking, and handling.

While I'm not disagreeing with your basic point, what I took away from this video was further confirmation that Mike drives well. Mike exploits his car's potential better than either the Porsche or Boss 302 drivers do with their cars.

Put Mike at the wheel of either of those two cars, and I'm confident he'd turn times that easily eclipse the times he set in the BRZ/FR-S.

I agree with this - looking at that video, that GT3 driver was not coming anywhere close to its full potential. If driven right, a GT3 should brake later, accelerate harder, and carry more speed through corners than the FR-S. In other words, it should be faster everywhere. This is assuming that they are running the stock tires (Pilot Sport Cup/P-Zero Corsa System). If they are running longer tread life tires, that could explain the FR-S's higher cornering speed (though the GT3 should still be much faster overall). For the most part though, that looks like a difference in driver ability.

I know everyone here likes to think of the BRZ/FR-S as god's gift to sports car handling, but against cars like the GT3, it really should lose everywhere assuming equal driver skill (and I have no doubt the GT3 feels just as stable as an FR-S with a few mods when doing 125mph through a corner).

Similarly, the Boss 302 should be much, much faster around a track than the BRZ is. However, a certain element of driver confidence does come into play with that one - it's not as easy to drive near the limit as the BRZ is, so that does change the equation somewhat. Still, if you put Mike (or another experienced driver) behind the wheel of the Mustang, I have little doubt that he would be faster than he is in the FR-S.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by thill

Yes, the Mustang GT w/track pack is a ton of car for the money. Good old American muscle car with a very powerful engine, good brakes, track tuned suspension, and massive grippy tires. Just about everything the BRZ is not. But as much as I want to love the Mustang GT, I just can't. That live rear axle, the big hood when you look out the window, the body roll.. It is a sledgehammer and the BRZ is a ballpean hammer.

Notice my statement at the end of the post you quoted - I pretty much completely agree with you about the GT. As I said, it's basically the fastest car you can get for the money (though I've heard good things about the Camaro 1SS as well - it would probably be fairly competitive too, and I really should test drive one sometime), both in a straight line and around a track. However, the way it delivers that performance isn't as confidence-inspiring as the FR-S/BRZ, and in my opinion, it isn't as enjoyable to drive.

[CBR600RR]

"It is quick, not fast"... is what I say

[Figo]

Many people who drive other cars asked me whether my FRS is fast or not.

I just said 'no, but the best car Iv ever driven' to make them confused.
Something I told them that I drove mustang, M3, X6M, 350z and Shelby. They are faster at corner or at straight line, but do not hav as much fun as this car does. That will make them more confused sometime.

IMO this car is not designed to be fast, EVEN AT CORNER. However, you can make it faster by getting more power and wider tires. I might not do that, I have 225 square tires now and I think thats the widest for me.

Many people told me that 86 is fast at the corner. Iv drive mustang(a little bit cheaper), it does not handle as well as FRS. Its of cause faster at straight line. Also, maybe because of wider tires, Im kinda surprised that I dont feel its slower even at most non-aggressive corners(Probability it is).

Iv also driven M3. It more expensive and faster at corner or straight line, but I think it grip a little too well at corners.

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by Figo

Iv also driven M3. It more expensive and faster at corner or straight line, but I think it grip a little too well at corners.

Said no race car driver, ever.

[Jive Turkey]

i get asked this on an almost daily basis. my response is usually, yeah its pretty slow, but dont let me catch you in a corner.

[Figo]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

Said no race car driver, ever.

I did not mean M3 is not a good car or a good race car. Its a better and faster car. Faster at straight line and at corner.

I hope someone can get my point. Nowadays cars focus on corner-speed, instead of corner-fun. So thats why 86 is such a good car. It is not a corner-speed car, its a corner-fun car, which is maverick. Speed does not always equals to fun.

[Figo]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

Said no race car driver, ever.

And thats why it has light weight, low center of gravity, and 215 "suck" rear tires.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Figo

I did not mean M3 is not a good car or a good race car. Its a better and faster car. Faster at straight line and at corner.

I hope someone can get my point. Nowadays cars focus on corner-speed, instead of corner-fun. So thats why 86 is such a good car. It is not a corner-speed car, its a corner-fun car, which is maverick. Speed does not always equals to fun.

The fact that the car has Prius tires on it and still handles quite well is all you need to know. And the reason the car had those was because it was easier to brake traction and drift. All you have to do to drastically improve grip and cornering is add some better tires.

Even with the Prius tires I have tons of confidence taking corners hard and fast in this car.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by thill

The fact that the car has Prius tires on it and still handles quite well is all you need to know. And the reason the car had those was because it was easier to brake traction and drift. All you have to do to drastically improve grip and cornering is add some better tires.

Even with the Prius tires I have tons of confidence taking corners hard and fast in this car.

i dont think the prius tire holds the car back as much as this forum would like to think. just take a look at that tire review that happened a couple months ago. the mustang and 1 series gained more time from a tire change despite the fact that they ended up with a less sticky tire after they swapped.

[Figo]

Originally Posted by thill

The fact that the car has Prius tires on it and still handles quite well is all you need to know. And the reason the car had those was because it was easier to brake traction and drift. All you have to do to drastically improve grip and cornering is add some better tires.

Even with the Prius tires I have tons of confidence taking corners hard and fast in this car.

I personally like these tires. And I think toyota & subaru used them for reasons. They are not cheap.

[thill]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont think the prius tire holds the car back as much as this forum would like to think. just take a look at that tire review that happened a couple months ago. the mustang and 1 series gained more time from a tire change despite the fact that they ended up with a less sticky tire after they swapped.

If you watch the whole video they explain why on the Mustang. It is the suspension. The car is holding the tires back.

On the FR-Z, this is not the issue and better tires result in much improved grip and lap times:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-...transformation

From last place against a WRX and Speed3 around the track to first, and all they did was change the tires.

Skipad and slalom greatly improved as well and the FR-S easily bested those other cars as well.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Figo

I personally like these tires. And I think toyota & subaru used them for reasons. They are not cheap.

They used them because of MPG, and to brake traction to make the car fun. See my link below. The tires are severly holding the car back in terms of traction and grip. Look at the slalom and skidpad differences between stock and improved tires.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by thill

If you watch the whole video they explain why on the Mustang. It is the suspension. The car is holding the tires back.

On the FR-Z, this is not the issue and better tires result in much improved grip and lap times:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-...transformation

From last place against a WRX and Speed3 around the track to first, and all they did was change the tires.

Skipad and slalom greatly improved as well and the FR-S easily bested those other cars as well.

i get that but it doesnt change the facts. the comparison to the wrx and ms3 doesnt really hold weight in this topic since they didnt change tires at all. all that proves is changing tires makes cars faster. to use tires as an excuse for this car would be to give pretty much every other performance car an even bigger excuse. it shouldnt be a point in favor for the frs because getting faster on new rims and tires is ubiquitous in the car market.