So that's another one...

[russv]

Nannies off or on?

[FRSupra]

pop the hood... pop the hood!

FA20 no Sh!t!!?


jk. Glad to hear youre ok.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

Four possible causes for the accident:

What would you say to the following statement: "An attentive responsible driver would be the cure for all those causes."

1. A responsible driver would not drive in excess.
2. A responsible driver would be aware of the road conditions and adjusting appropriately.
3. A responsible driver would not allow him/herself to be distracted form the task at hand.
4. A responsible driver would maintain their vehicle to reasonable standards.

Accidents happen and such (I am by no means saying this is a "cure-all" and I've had my share of "that was awful, don't ever do that again" moments) but I see only one primary cause; an irresponsible driver.

[Timtamtt]

Glad you are okay! Hope everything works out, I'd like to buy the fogs, sidemarkers n headlights tho lol...

[MissDeb]

Don't feel too back about wrecking your 86. I am sure Mario Andretti, A J Foyt, Richard Petty and even Ken Gushi have wrecked a fews cars. Some people consider a few of these drivers as some of the best in the world.

[FRiSson]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

What would you say to the following statement: "An attentive responsible driver would be the cure for all those causes."

1. A responsible driver would not drive in excess.
2. A responsible driver would be aware of the road conditions and adjusting appropriately.
3. A responsible driver would not allow him/herself to be distracted form the task at hand.
4. A responsible driver would maintain their vehicle to reasonable standards.

Accidents happen and such (I am by no means saying this is a "cure-all" and I've had my share of "that was awful, don't ever do that again" moments) but I see only one primary cause; an irresponsible driver.

An irresponsible driver is often to blame, but not always.

I agree on 1 and 3, with some small caveats. For example the guy who is stung by a bee while behind the wheel, or discovers a python slithering up his/her pants may find it difficult to maintain full attention.

On 2, even an attentive driver can only be partially aware of road conditions, trees branches do fall on or right in front of cars, manhole covers do blow up sometimes and earthquakes are unpredictable.

On 4, I agree about maintenance, but I believe there are instances of failure that cannot always be anticipated, and mechanics occasionally miss things that otherwise could be repaired before failure.

This is why older drivers (up to a point) are almost always better drivers. Not because their reflexes are better, but because they anticipate and avoid problems.

[mx5apex]

Something in the front suspension break to cause the accident? tie rod?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

An irresponsible driver is often to blame, but not always.

Agree completely, I think "act of god" is an appropriate descriptor regardless of beliefs, sometimes shit happens.

:happy0180:

[NickFRS]

If this happens after the corner the only way I could see you going backwards is if you drifted the corner..... over corrected... and off you go... Hope it turns out for you. Insurance fraud is serious.

On another note if your fogs/headlights are good to go how do you feel about mailing them to me??? ahaha

[lazyluka]

It took me a while to admit this, but I think the people who are blaming me are correct...
I have decided to man up and admit my bad. Flame me all you want if it makes you happy.

I was driving on slight downhill on a wet road at night, yet my TC was turned off. So this was my first mistake.

Secondly, like I said, I was not driving quickly. However there in lies the problem, because when I drive slowly, I don't expect the tail to break loose, I don't want to go over the speed limit etc... When you drive quickly you expect things to happen. So there is a big flaw with my thinking right there, accidents and mistakes can happen at any speed.

In this instance, I was driving slowly, just wanting to get back home and I didn't want to speed (perfect example of when TC should be ON), so as I went around the corner, and shifted into 3rd gear, I noticed that I was creeping up to the speed limit, but you could say I was not paying enough attention to my surroundings because......

At this instance I suddenly lifted off the accelerator to slow the car down, but went over a slight dip in the road at roughly the same time. Combined with the low grip of the wet road, this caused lift-off over steer to occur.

While I do not recall counter steering, I do recall looking at the direction where I wanted the car to go (several driver training courses), and this is show by me instinctively counter steering to try correct the slide. Now the biggest mistake here was that I failed to get back on the power, this resulted in the rear end doing a snap back. Looking at the data it seems like I also counter steered for this snap back but because it happened so violently steering alone was not enough and the spin continued thus sending me flying backwards off the cliff.

So in conclusion the series of mistakes were:

• Turning TC off, but more importantly keeping it off even though I slowed down the pace and was no longer driving in a sporty manner so there was NO reason to even have it OFF.
• Driving too fast for the conditions, (even though I thought it was slow, but doubt this would have happened if I was doing 40km/h)
• Lifting off the gas at a critical moment (Not paying attention to the road)
• Not stepping back on the gas (Not expecting the end to go out)

FYI, 0% alcohol, no fatigue, just the fact that I was in a state of mind thinking hey, if the car is stable at higher speeds why should anything happen when I am going so slow. <<< BIG MISTAKE!

So have I learnt my lesson?
Well, for one, it has been 2 months to the day today and I still haven't received my new 86 . Insurance gave me a firm warning and said that they seriously thought about not re-insuring me (even though I was under the speed limit etc etc). I drive my current temporary car now only when I need to and keep all the electronics ON at all times. I have also reduced my speed overall, but I still have a burning desire to go fast... So I cant wait to get my 86 and hit the race track, autocross events and the lot, things which will fulfil my desire for speed, but keep me safe on the road.

[Franzo]

Wow glad you two walked away, looks pretty nasty. Stock tires?

[BadMoon]

Originally Posted by lazyluka

It took me a while to admit this, but I think the people who are blaming me are correct...
I have decided to man up and admit my bad. Flame me all you want if it makes you happy.

I was driving on slight downhill on a wet road at night, yet my TC was turned off. So this was my first mistake.

Secondly, like I said, I was not driving quickly. However there in lies the problem, because when I drive slowly, I don't expect the tail to break loose, I don't want to go over the speed limit etc... When you drive quickly you expect things to happen. So there is a big flaw with my thinking right there, accidents and mistakes can happen at any speed.

In this instance, I was driving slowly, just wanting to get back home and I didn't want to speed (perfect example of when TC should be ON), so as I went around the corner, and shifted into 3rd gear, I noticed that I was creeping up to the speed limit, but you could say I was not paying enough attention to my surroundings because......

At this instance I suddenly lifted off the accelerator to slow the car down, but went over a slight dip in the road at roughly the same time. Combined with the low grip of the wet road, this caused lift-off over steer to occur.

While I do not recall counter steering, I do recall looking at the direction where I wanted the car to go (several driver training courses), and this is show by me instinctively counter steering to try correct the slide. Now the biggest mistake here was that I failed to get back on the power, this resulted in the rear end doing a snap back. Looking at the data it seems like I also counter steered for this snap back but because it happened so violently steering alone was not enough and the spin continued thus sending me flying backwards off the cliff.


So in conclusion the series of mistakes were:

• Turning TC off, but more importantly keeping it off even though I slowed down the pace and was no longer driving in a sporty manner so there was NO reason to even have it OFF.
• Driving too fast for the conditions, (even though I thought it was slow, but doubt this would have happened if I was doing 40km/h)
• Lifting off the gas at a critical moment (Not paying attention to the road)
• Not stepping back on the gas (Not expecting the end to go out)

FYI, 0% alcohol, no fatigue, just the fact that I was in a state of mind thinking hey, if the car is stable at higher speeds why should anything happen when I am going so slow. <<< BIG MISTAKE!

So have I learnt my lesson?
Well, for one, it has been 2 months to the day today and I still haven't received my new 86 . Insurance gave me a firm warning and said that they seriously thought about not re-insuring me (even though I was under the speed limit etc etc). I drive my current temporary car now only when I need to and keep all the electronics ON at all times. I have also reduced my speed overall, but I still have a burning desire to go fast... So I cant wait to get my 86 and hit the race track, autocross events and the lot, things which will fulfil my desire for speed, but keep me safe on the road.

I applaud your honesty and am glad everyone was okay. Takes a man to own up to his mistakes.

[Whitigir]

I too am admire your honesty. The 86 is a scary car under wet road with stock tires and traction off. Somewhere there is already YouTube video to demonstrate this already. But this pull my interest more about the car.

How did human sustain the automotive stage, where the Traction Control was not invented ?

Very interesting indeed

[Fish Eagle]

Full marks for your honesty.
Glad you weren't hurt!!

I'm 59 years old and grew up with powerful RWD cars in the 70's and 80's - Datsun 160Z (1 of only 200 built), Ford V6 LDV, Jaguar XJ 4.2, 733i BMW, 740i BMW, etc. Us old wrinklies learnt to drive on RWD cars, and learnt how to respect them (or pay the price). They were very different to the modern generation of understeering FWD hot hatches which are very forgiving and often allow mistakes to go unpunished.

I can understand how difficult it is for today's youngsters being thrown into the RWD deep end with a car like the FRS/86/BRZ. The car needs a RWD instruction manual. But, that's a cr@p plan because nobody would bother to read it anyway - LOL. Maybe it should come with a complimentary skidpan instruction session.