Do I need an oil cooler?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Maybe an NA/NB. The ND1/ND2, Flyin' Miata has developed an Engine Oil Cooler, transmission fluid cooler and differential fluid cooler because they run so hot.

Don't overlook NC, much stiffer and less fragile vs NA/NB! NC with similar power/weight to my car (same max speeds at multiple tracks) beat me in my time-trial class with COMSCC this year Hotshoe driver in a shared car that I have handily beaten in years past with the owner driving. Excuse list available on request...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Petah78

I wonder if the addition of an oil cooler reduced oil pressure to the point which caused more harm than good resulting in the failure.

I don't think it is related to oil temp or oil cooler. He had RTV in the pan and on the pickup screen. Smoking gun...

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I don't think it is related to oil temp or oil cooler. He had RTV in the pan and on the pickup screen. Smoking gun...

Good point. I wonder if the RTV found has been in there for the past 73k miles or a recent addition (dislodged recently). In light of this, I think the KillerB pre-filter for the Gen2 car is certainly a good item to have if it ever makes it to production. And i am still of the opinion that the redesigned pick up in the FA24 is Suby's way of working around this RTV problem.

[DarkSunrise]

I’m not an ardent oil cooler advocate (think it can help if designed properly), but worth noting that Oscar Jackson Jr. seems to be a big proponent of them. Granted his company sells them but they also tear these engines apart regularly so they can see how the bearings are holding up in extended track/race usage.

Fun fact: Oil pressure will fluctuate.

We've raced 86/BRZs on race tires for a while now. We won multiple championships with stock sumps and no baffle. Engines were beautiful inside when we tore them down after championship.

Most important things are make sure you have quality oil, oil cooler, and proper engine oil level.

[gen3v8]

Apart from the obvious ,correct oil level, quality oil of the correct viscosity is the main ingredient.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Don't overlook NC, much stiffer and less fragile vs NA/NB! NC with similar power/weight to my car (same max speeds at multiple tracks) beat me in my time-trial class with COMSCC this year Hotshoe driver in a shared car that I have handily beaten in years past with the owner driving. Excuse list available on request...

I was just specifically talking about temps. The NA/NB can get away without all the coolers. The ND's can't unless you're particularly slow.

The NC is just a shortened RX-8. Brakes/hubs/swaybars from the RX-8 all bolt right up.

[eyeballs]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

The ND1/ND2, Flyin' Miata has developed an Engine Oil Cooler, transmission fluid cooler and differential fluid cooler because they run so hot.

Oh and they sell strong bolts for the transmission case to help keep them from flexing and breaking the I'm wanting to say 4th gear.

I had no idea the NDs didn't follow the invincible trend of the na-nc. Very disappointing. With a stock-type radiator on my normally aspirated NB and no cooling mods, it would run seemingly forever in any weather without overheating. Back-to-back 30 minute sessions in July at Road Atlanta - no problem. No brake upgrade needed either other then pads and fluid. All fun, no worries.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by eyeballs

I had no idea the NDs didn't follow the invincible trend of the na-nc. Very disappointing. With a stock-type radiator on my normally aspirated NB and no cooling mods, it would run seemingly forever in any weather without overheating. Back-to-back 30 minute sessions in July at Road Atlanta - no problem. No brake upgrade needed either other then pads and fluid. All fun, no worries.

Yeah, it's a consequence of chasing low weight. I think the diff has like .5L of fluid for instance.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by eyeballs

I had no idea the NDs didn't follow the invincible trend of the na-nc. Very disappointing. With a stock-type radiator on my normally aspirated NB and no cooling mods, it would run seemingly forever in any weather without overheating. Back-to-back 30 minute sessions in July at Road Atlanta - no problem. No brake upgrade needed either other then pads and fluid. All fun, no worries.

Well, ND2 makes more power from the factory than NA/NB could ever dream of?
Surely that would generate more heat.

Anyhow, let's get back to the topic of oil cooling of 86s :P

[DocWalt]

Not sure where the info about the ND is coming from, they don't really overheat on track unless you're in a draft pack. There are upgrades available to keep temps down but it is in no way a requirement. They also don't need all sorts of brake upgrades, though the slow idiots on the FB groups are convinced you need a BBK to even think about going to a track.


Back to the 86 though... Any sort of extended track use should probably still use an oil cooler to extend service intervals and use higher viscosity oil. Stock cooler seems "fine" with just 5w30 like the first gen with the same cooler.

[Lincoln Logs]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Not sure where the info about the ND is coming from, they don't really overheat on track unless you're in a draft pack. There are upgrades available to keep temps down but it is in no way a requirement. They also don't need all sorts of brake upgrades, though the slow idiots on the FB groups are convinced you need a BBK to even think about going to a track.


Back to the 86 though... Any sort of extended track use should probably still use an oil cooler to extend service intervals and use higher viscosity oil. Stock cooler seems "fine" with just 5w30 like the first gen with the same cooler.

I used to work at a Mazda shop. The ND will aggressively pull power as the oil temp rises, witnessed it numerous times. They "need" and oil cooler to make full power but I don't think they NEED it to survive.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by Lincoln Logs

I used to work at a Mazda shop. The ND will aggressively pull power as the oil temp rises, witnessed it numerous times. They "need" and oil cooler to make full power but I don't think they NEED it to survive.

There's no oil temperature sensor on the ND Miata, ND1 or ND2.

They will definitely pull power when they get high engine coolant temps, but all of our local ND track guys are on stock radiator and have been maintaining <215F coolant temps. One guy now has a vented hood and his coolant temps are <205F even on 100 degree days.

[Lincoln Logs]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

There's no oil temperature sensor on the ND Miata, ND1 or ND2.

They will definitely pull power when they get high engine coolant temps, but all of our local ND track guys are on stock radiator and have been maintaining <215F coolant temps. One guy now has a vented hood and his coolant temps are <205F even on 100 degree days.

Correct, my recollection is the ECU uses an algorithm to “guess” the oil temp. It has been a few years since I have been around the cars/shop life.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Not sure where the info about the ND is coming from, they don't really overheat on track unless you're in a draft pack. There are upgrades available to keep temps down but it is in no way a requirement. They also don't need all sorts of brake upgrades, though the slow idiots on the FB groups are convinced you need a BBK to even think about going to a track.


Back to the 86 though... Any sort of extended track use should probably still use an oil cooler to extend service intervals and use higher viscosity oil. Stock cooler seems "fine" with just 5w30 like the first gen with the same cooler.

I trust the data provided from 949 and FM. FM has data showing both the transmission and differential will hit north of 300 on track. They also developed a stud kit for the trans case to help with strength.

They never did any of those things for the 3 previous generations.