Assumption: Subaru=Turbo / Scion=NA

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by ftw-86

I know that you could put an aftermarket turbo on it and make big horsepower but some of us would like it stock and will probably keep the car stock for most of its life.

You could put an Aftermarket Turbo on and make tiny horsepower too.

I don't understand the obsession with keeping it stock and/or waiting till there's a Turbo version. If you want a Turbo just slap one on. Factory Turbos usually aren't as efficient as aftermarket ones.

[cyde01]

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by cyde01

It's just my Cleaning Ladies Kid!

[[es vi: eks]]

Also I remember reading in a artical, Subaru says that since they built the NA FB for good fuel ecconomy etc that it is not suited for turbocharging.
They will be using the EJ series Turbo engine in the WRX and STI untill there come up with a new motor suited for turbo

[AIRMAX]

Knowing how it is working on vehicle projects...

Toyota/Subaru cannot just simply "decide" to release a turbo model 2-3 years after a NA is released.

Vehicles are usually designed with a 4 year outlook, until a new model or facelift is required.

In that 4 years, all the hard bits are fixed, no more evaluation, no more tests, no more vehicle validations... the changes will be limited to aesthetics and features (eg. different fog lamps, different colour trim etc). Engines are FIXED and most if not all the sheet metals... until the next model is due anyways.... this is all decided by the Chief Engineer.

Any increase in power is from tuning.... or if they source an external company to do all the evaluations and development of turbo/superchargers.... once a project wraps up... there's no "turbo" development half way to its life... that destroys trusts in the company and kills resale value of the initial vehicles.... suicide for reputations etc.

An example would be the Toyota Aurion, which had an external company supercharged the car half way through series 1's life. This lead to some engine problems and lack lustre performance due to the car (1) not being designed with a supercharger in mind in the first place, which meant they couldnt tune its handling and overall performance. (2) engine issues, durability and heat issues, again due to lack of testings and validations that takes place way way before the car is released.


I believe, the FT-86/FR-S/2000RS or what ever...
Not an ounce of confirmation or "hint" has been given by confirmed sources like Toyota/Subaru regarding engine output... because they are designing the car to handle BOTH NA and turbo engines. My belief on this is due to the market having multiple cars in different categories that they KNOW will be compared to this car.

Miata, 370Z, Genesis, RX-8, CRZ, CRZ Mugen tuned etc.

look at Honda.... released CRZ with NO performance from the engine what so ever... got slammed by many enthusiasts.... and now are producing Mugen tuned versions.....

I believe Toyota/Subaru have a similar plan... a NA cheaper version... and a Turbo version, which will be released as a upper spec'd model.

If I am wrong, then it would be a peculiar turn of events, which can hint that Toyota probably has their "Supra" "MR2" replacements in development ready to slot between this car and the over 100K+ IS-F / LFA sports cars.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by AIRMAX

I believe, the FT-86/FR-S/2000RS or what ever...
Not an ounce of confirmation or "hint" has been given by confirmed sources like Toyota/Subaru regarding engine output... because they are designing the car to handle BOTH NA and turbo engines. My belief on this is due to the market having multiple cars in different categories that they KNOW will be compared to this car.

Miata, 370Z, Genesis, RX-8, CRZ, CRZ Mugen tuned etc.

look at Honda.... released CRZ with NO performance from the engine what so ever... got slammed by many enthusiasts.... and now are producing Mugen tuned versions.....

I believe Toyota/Subaru have a similar plan... a NA cheaper version... and a Turbo version, which will be released as a upper spec'd model.

If I am wrong, then it would be a peculiar turn of events, which can hint that Toyota probably has their "Supra" "MR2" replacements in development ready to slot between this car and the over 100K+ IS-F / LFA sports cars.

subaru has already said it doesnt plan to turbo the car, why do we still speculate about this? having a turbo in this car goes against its philosophy. it wasnt made to be fast, but to be fun. a miata might be the best comparison of what this car is all about. lightweight, small, and fun but not very fast.

also, in the US, its going to be sold as a scion. i cannot see them making a high performance variant. it goes against what scion is all about as well. if they had this master plan all along to make a turbo high perf version, why make it a scion? and not a toyota or lexus? think about it. its supposed to be a spiritual successor to the AE86, a toyota, and yet they chose to sell it as a scion...

now im not saying they will NEVER make a high perf version. they may in the far future to milk the chassis and engine further... but dont expect one in the first few years.

[ftw-86]

If memory serves me right, there will not be a Subaru Model for sale in the US. We will the get ft86 as a Scion model while the rest of the world will get it as a Subaru.

I still believe that there will be a turbo model that will be release after the NA model. Just like what Hyundai did with the gen coupe. They release the v6 and hinted that a turbo 4 will be on the way. Then BAM! 2.0T.

It just makes too much sense to release a turbo.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by ftw-86

If memory serves me right, there will not be a Subaru Model for sale in the US. We will the get ft86 as a Scion model while the rest of the world will get it as a Subaru.

I still believe that there will be a turbo model that will be release after the NA model. Just like what Hyundai did with the gen coupe. They release the v6 and hinted that a turbo 4 will be on the way. Then BAM! 2.0T.

It just makes too much sense to release a turbo.

Untrue. Subaru didn't confirm anything about bringing the car here or not. It's just a speculation. Toyota EU already confirmed Toyota Sport RWD for EU next year.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by ftw-86

If memory serves me right, there will not be a Subaru Model for sale in the US. We will the get ft86 as a Scion model while the rest of the world will get it as a Subaru.

I still believe that there will be a turbo model that will be release after the NA model. Just like what Hyundai did with the gen coupe. They release the v6 and hinted that a turbo 4 will be on the way. Then BAM! 2.0T.

It just makes too much sense to release a turbo.

huh? the gen coupe 2.0T was no secret. they basically launched together.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by madfast

huh? the gen coupe 2.0T was no secret. they basically launched together.

The R-Spec Gen Coupe wasn't a secret either. They told us it would be released shortly after the initial launch.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by AIRMAX

Knowing how it is working on vehicle projects...

Toyota/Subaru cannot just simply "decide" to release a turbo model 2-3 years after a NA is released.

Vehicles are usually designed with a 4 year outlook, until a new model or facelift is required.

In that 4 years, all the hard bits are fixed, no more evaluation, no more tests, no more vehicle validations... the changes will be limited to aesthetics and features (eg. different fog lamps, different colour trim etc). Engines are FIXED and most if not all the sheet metals... until the next model is due anyways.... this is all decided by the Chief Engineer.

Any increase in power is from tuning.... or if they source an external company to do all the evaluations and development of turbo/superchargers.... once a project wraps up... there's no "turbo" development half way to its life... that destroys trusts in the company and kills resale value of the initial vehicles.... suicide for reputations etc.

An example would be the Toyota Aurion, which had an external company supercharged the car half way through series 1's life. This lead to some engine problems and lack lustre performance due to the car (1) not being designed with a supercharger in mind in the first place, which meant they couldnt tune its handling and overall performance. (2) engine issues, durability and heat issues, again due to lack of testings and validations that takes place way way before the car is released.


I believe, the FT-86/FR-S/2000RS or what ever...
Not an ounce of confirmation or "hint" has been given by confirmed sources like Toyota/Subaru regarding engine output... because they are designing the car to handle BOTH NA and turbo engines. My belief on this is due to the market having multiple cars in different categories that they KNOW will be compared to this car.

Miata, 370Z, Genesis, RX-8, CRZ, CRZ Mugen tuned etc.

look at Honda.... released CRZ with NO performance from the engine what so ever... got slammed by many enthusiasts.... and now are producing Mugen tuned versions.....

I believe Toyota/Subaru have a similar plan... a NA cheaper version... and a Turbo version, which will be released as a upper spec'd model.

If I am wrong, then it would be a peculiar turn of events, which can hint that Toyota probably has their "Supra" "MR2" replacements in development ready to slot between this car and the over 100K+ IS-F / LFA sports cars.

Generally yes, you are correct.

However there is speculation regarding how the Mk3 Supra acquired it's 7MGTE. It was very shortly after an unfavourable response to the Mk3's release. The 86.5 came out with the 200hp 7MGE but was so heavy that it was noticeably slower than the 5MGE Mk2. Then the turbo came out, and has it's well heard of head gasket issues. Also when you compare the JZ series' GE vs GTE's there are more noticeable differences specifically how the intake manifolds are laid out. The JZ's have a front facing throttle body on the GTE's and a center side mounted throttle body with a crossover pipe on the GE's. 7M uses the cross over setup on both the turbo an non, which makes for some really not very smart intercooler pipe routing. The factory 7M turbo looks more like an aftermarket turbo conversion on an NA 2JZ.

So there is a possibility that if the FT86/216 is not positively received, a turbo engine could be quickly adapted to fit. I'm thinking the next-gen WRX/STI's engine (not an FB it sounds like) is still a future potential engine for this car.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by ftw-86

If memory serves me right, there will not be a Subaru Model for sale in the US. We will the get ft86 as a Scion model while the rest of the world will get it as a Subaru.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/g...ter-non-turbo/

Memory serves you wrong. Subaru of America has confirmed that we will get both a Subaru version and the Scion FR-S.

Please do a little research on the forums before reposting these old rumors that have been repeatedly denied. Other new members will come on the forums and read your post thinking that it's current information thus creating a vicious cycle of misinformation.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/g...ter-non-turbo/

Memory serves you wrong. Subaru of America has confirmed that we will get both a Subaru version and the Scion FR-S.

Please do a little research on the forums before reposting these old rumors that have been repeatedly denied. Other new members will come on the forums and read your post thinking that it's current information thus creating a vicious cycle of misinformation.

Wow, I completely forgot that Subaru confirmed. I thought it was Toyota only in Geneva. Thanks dude.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/g...ter-non-turbo/

Memory serves you wrong. Subaru of America has confirmed that we will get both a Subaru version and the Scion FR-S.

Please do a little research on the forums before reposting these old rumors that have been repeatedly denied. Other new members will come on the forums and read your post thinking that it's current information thus creating a vicious cycle of misinformation.

Would you mind posting where in the press release it says anything about North America getting the Subaru? I read the press release again and searched it for USA, NA, and America and nothing comes up.

All I read about America getting the Subaru is Autoblog commentary, I read that too, and they're not quoting they are jibber jabbering.