OFT v2.076|Wayne Rom v130|OFT v4.01 Dynos

[ermax]

The car is speced at 200HP. Obviously you need the correct fuel to achieve that. The manual will obviously not tell you to run lower RON. But has an asterisk to let you know you aren’t going to harm the car if you are forced to use something lower.

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Even if you throw out of the window the tunes of Shiv, the OFT device does not support a 100% all the available ROMs. I could not log even the IAM parameter in my ROM (=zero). I could calculate it with some other parameters, but lets be real over here. This is not professional support. Additionally, not many tuners outside the open source community will accept to make a tune with a device which is open. Do you have any idea about intellectual property? I don't have anything else to say and you cannot convince me the other way around.

First off its called free software, open source is a develpment cycle. Also I hope all the ecutek stop using the internet because TCP/ip stacks are BSD licensed code. Actually a ton of code is licensed under a libre license. Also intellectual property is a joke. Its a fucking scam that shouldn't be patentable since math equations cant be. Also even if you license something with a libre license you still "own" it, it doesn't go into public domain. Not to mention the fact that it islibre has nothing to do with his good it is. The internet literally runs on BSD and gnu/Linux. I use hope none of you people use the interent

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Breadman

First off its called free software, open source is a develpment cycle. Also I hope all the ecutek stop using the internet because TCP/ip stacks are BSD licensed code. Actually a ton of code is licensed under a libre license. Also intellectual property is a joke. Its a fucking scam that shouldn't be patentable since math equations cant be. Also even if you license something with a libre license you still "own" it, it doesn't go into public domain. Not to mention the fact that it islibre has nothing to do with his good it is. The internet literally runs on BSD and gnu/Linux. I use hope none of you people use the interent

As a software dev I can tell you IP is not a joke. I have family to feed. My shit isn’t free. I’m not opposed to open source. I’ve released plenty of stuff that’s open. But to say IP is a joke is nuts.

I think you missed nikitopo’s point about IP. What tuner wants to spend a bunch of time on a car and then that guy make a copy for all his friends. How does this guy continue to make a living? I’m sorry but not everything needs to be free.

[Breadman]

as a long time member of the FSF and someone that works in IT, that whole comment just screams ignorance. do you really think that people develop libre office, or apache, or the linux kernel, or gnome, or the 100s of other tools and libraries that are coded and developed by professional coders for free? Do you really think that redhat, intel, ibm, oracle, the fsf, etc dont actually pay their coders do develop and code enterprise grade products?

also unless you personally licensed your code you dont make any more money period. your company is the one making that money. they are literally extracting YOUR worth from you, its called "profit" you might have heard of it, and if you didnt look it up.

also no fuck IP. a thought or a string of 1s and 0s isnt something that can be owned. someone cant own the color blue for example, wait except they can and do. also just because its "open source" (again the term is "free software" open source is a development model) doesnt mean you can just make copies of tunes whenever. if that were the case i could just buy 1 oft and flash 27 cars. also it would mean that i could just make bitcoins out of thin air.

also yes everything should be free, but free as in freedom, not free as in beer. it is perfectly fine to charge money for free software. as a matter of fact red hat does just that and is a billion dollar company.

for someone that is a "software dev" and supposedly in the field you sure know very little about free software, licensing, and how free software is developed, which is probably why your post is so ignorant.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by ermax

The car is speced at 200HP. Obviously you need the correct fuel to achieve that. The manual will obviously not tell you to run lower RON. But has an asterisk to let you know you aren’t going to harm the car if you are forced to use something lower.

No doubt
but i was just saying that in fact no 95Ron fuel will ruin the engine

steve proved to us that in Australia and South Africa the fuel is so shitty that knocks even more than our european 95Ron..what should they do then, kill themself?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Breadman

First off its called free software, open source is a develpment cycle. Also I hope all the ecutek stop using the internet because TCP/ip stacks are BSD licensed code. Actually a ton of code is licensed under a libre license. Also intellectual property is a joke. Its a fucking scam that shouldn't be patentable since math equations cant be. Also even if you license something with a libre license you still "own" it, it doesn't go into public domain. Not to mention the fact that it islibre has nothing to do with his good it is. The internet literally runs on BSD and gnu/Linux. I use hope none of you people use the interent

Not sure if I should laugh or cry. I lived the internet from the early days, where it was basically known in the scientific community, sponsored basically by governmental funds and research institutions. At that time we were using irc for chatting, mail for communication, newsgroups for getting information and even gopher a project before the age of the www. Free software and the internet explosion is a big story and out of the topic here, but I still remember the days where all the BIG multinational companies started promoting the www to the masses.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Breadman

as a long time member of the FSF and someone that works in IT, that whole comment just screams ignorance. do you really think that people develop libre office, or apache, or the linux kernel, or gnome, or the 100s of other tools and libraries that are coded and developed by professional coders for free? Do you really think that redhat, intel, ibm, oracle, the fsf, etc dont actually pay their coders do develop and code enterprise grade products?

I never said OpenSource devs don't get paid.

Originally Posted by Breadman

also unless you personally licensed your code you dont make any more money period. your company is the one making that money. they are literally extracting YOUR worth from you, its called "profit" you might have heard of it, and if you didnt look it up.

You are right, my employer (ME) extracts all of the money. In the context of this tunning it is the tuner who is almost always the owner of the company that would be extracting the money.

Originally Posted by Breadman

also no fuck IP. a thought or a string of 1s and 0s isnt something that can be owned.

Yes it can be owned. What is your contribution to the world? Oh wait, you don't have the intellect to contribute but you want to dictate to others who do have the intelect how they should licence or not licence their work?

Originally Posted by Breadman

also yes everything should be free, but free as in freedom, not free as in beer. it is perfectly fine to charge money for free software. as a matter of fact red hat does just that and is a billion dollar company.

This model doesn't fit every company. A small team of 7 devs can not make it the way a billion dollar company can. Again, the context of this thread is about tunning.

Originally Posted by Breadman

for someone that is a "software dev" and supposedly in the field you sure know very little about free software, licensing, and how free software is developed, which is probably why your post is so ignorant.

For someone who is obviously not a software dev you sure know what is best for those that actually are. I already said I have no problem with OpenSource. Not every developer fits your utopia though.

[Breadman]

so why did you bring it up when you use it and you know that it isnt shit software?

edit:look like my phone didnt quote this went to http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=62

[ermax]

To add to this, I have released software to the simracing community that is free. I even host a server on my own dime to run some of this software. One of the programs is used by leagues and admins to assist in hosting servers. I just checked it now has 1016 accounts created. These accounts are just for leagues and admins of servers. So the actual user count of this system is well over 1016. So I eventually put a donation link on it and over the 5 years it's been in production and still heavily used, guess how many donations I have received? 1.... 1 $45 donation. I don't really care because sim racing is one of my hobbies and was happy to help. But to think all companies can make money off free software is delusional and nievie.

[Breadman]

again its "free software" not "open source" unless you are referring to the development model specifically which you arent. and if you didnt make the comment that you needed to make a living what where you trying to say beside they dont get paid?

if you actually are your own boss and make and sell software you are an edge case.

additionally i know colors can be trade marked, thats why i said it, because its fucking stupid. also you know jackshit about me. as a matter of fact ive contributed code and testing time to a package manager. its not much but i still gpled code out there that people actually use every day. not to mention my day job i depend on a toolset that is largely free software (not that my company wouldnt/doesnt pay for proprietary software).

again for someone who is not in the 99% of people that some how make their own code and own their own company, you are the exception not the rule. and again its called "free software".

nothing you posted had anything to do with the original point that i contested, that "open source" is not as good as proprietary software. but if you want to continue to act high and mighty because you are bourgeois coder, keep derailing the thread and keep on trolling, ill just block you.


edit: looks like my phone didnt quote the post which was http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=63

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

No doubt
but i was just saying that in fact no 95Ron fuel will ruin the engine

steve proved to us that in Australia and South Africa the fuel is so shitty that knocks even more than our european 95Ron..what should they do then, kill themself?

Do you remember or do you know the injector or seal issue? It looks that you joined this forum last year. It was caused on high rpm and under high engine load when you were shifting gears. Factory didn't retard timing during the shifting, the engine was knocking and eventually it was causing a leak or even a total seal/injector failure. This was fixed by an ECU revision and it affected all the regions. There are different types of knocking and you cannot really put everything in a single bag. The latter is an example of a bad knock.

Medium rpm knocking under low-medium engine load is a different story and it is what it is because of fuel efficiency, regulations etc. You might want to fix it or not. It is not mandatory to fix it.

[tomm.brz]

i know what you sre talking about, and it is fixed by the Transient retard map, they brought tip in retard ignition to - 40 in high range rpm. it was fixed in early 14, 4 years ago..Why my joining 1year ago count? i m lurking since years. what s the problems then about it now in 2018? why should 95ron then be a problem? the transiet problem was there even with 100ron fuel.. even with Ethanol.
medium rpm knock is there because of aggressivw timing in stock rom, most tuner fix it regulating the timing,
it seems you are talking just by something you read here randomly, not by actually knowing the maps on the roms

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

i know what you sre talking about, and it is fixed by the Transient retard map, they brought tip in retard ignition to - 40 in high range rpm. it was fixed in early 14, 4 years ago..Why my joining 1year ago count? i m lurking since years. what s the problems then about it now in 2018? why should 95ron then be a problem? the transiet problem was there even with 100ron fuel.. even with Ethanol.
medium rpm knock is there because of aggressivw timing in stock rom, most tuner fix it regulating the timing,
it seems you are talking just by something you read here randomly, not by actually knowing the maps on the roms

The transient problem was much less with better quality fuel, because you had better knock resistance. It also depends the usage of the car and how hard it was driven. Please study first the basics and then come back to criticize the others. This issue is now solved, but it is still a weak point in our engines. If you are constantly using bad quality fuel, with a lower than factory octane specification and an aggressive v4 tune that tries to do everything in a single map, then the specific issue might come back. It might not appear when shifting, but in more general high rpm and load engine scenarios. You'll have again total seal/injector failures and then go back to find Shiv who has almost a year to post here and ask back your money.

Here is his reputation in Nasioc and people you know don't change ...







The medium rpm knock is not needed to be analyzed in more detail. It is not known to cause issues, so it is out of topic.

[tomm.brz]

I know the basics, you instead know no map inside you superb Ecutek canned tune..
How many cars >my14 running later than A01G/A02G roms you know to have encountered the DI seals problem? They are basically all my13s or my14s who run A00G (or equivalent in other markets) for a discrete amount of time and the damage was already done when they finally upgraded

again, if there is knock, IAM lowers (and start at 0.7 at every start) and the aggressive timings becomes immediatly not aggressive anymore. and they arent aggressive at each start on the engine. They become aggressive if IAM goes to 1, which only does if you run 100Ron octane or more .. then where is the problem?

the medium rpm knock is relevant since this car is very prone to knock in this area, and if knocks there, the IAM take care of the timings ALSO on the higher range


If you open both v2 stg2 93oct, and v4 stg2+ .. you could see ign timings are actually quite similar, sometimes on v2 are even more higher
AVCS though is more aggressive con v4... but well you still don t understand what actually IAM does I guess
With IAM at 0.7 on v4, timings are more relaxed on higher rpm than v2.. so you could even do more arm with v2 than v4 theoretically



I won t ask any money to Shiv, first because his tunes are free and open to everybody and he s not forcing anyone to use them
Second because I m running a dedicated 4-maps tune, instead of a "universal" canned tune