The '17/'18 Winterpocalypse Tire Thread!!!

[churchx]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

.. Studded is not needed (or legal) where I live. When we get big snow or ice storms, I just walk to the bar with my laptop and spend the day there.

Well, those three mentioned are all non studded ones.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by churchx

Well, those three mentioned are all non studded ones.

Ah, misread your post.

- Andrew

[~el~jefe~]

now you are switching from ice and snow and dry weather to warm rain days. What I say stands, it is a myth. How often does it rain in the winter and you are driving on it fast?

rain = no need for snow tires, in fact, they are not good in the rain as warmer weather tires for the rain/dry

Obviously the more a tire pumps out the more it will potentially hydroplane. However, it is the design of the tire that makes it good in rain, not it being 1 inch wide. You are giving advice now based upon bad weather conditions of warm climates in a snow tire thread. That is grasping for straws.

90% of driving = dry plowed roads.
100% of fast driving = 215/45/17 most safe

Smaller wheels? that's a really really really bad idea on a SPORTS car. The sidewall flex is ENORMOUS! So dont anyone mention that please. I get sick of these posts where people change the engineering of their car and claim safety just to win a forum post. They lead all the other forums people to get 195/60/15's or other dangerous setups. You can use 145 tires on a BRZ if you want, you will be going 2mph on a turn in dry weather. Why not 10 inch wheels and 125 width tires!? Would not that cut the snow? First off, you dont want to cut the snow. Ever see snow shoes? NOt a valid idea that you have dig into the snow.

[churchx]

Dangerous? Unsafe? There are lot of cars of similar power / weight with smaller wheel/tire stock sizes. Though most of them are older ones (it seems that it simply is trendy, the newer car is, the bigger wheels and of lesser sidewall profile stock sizing is given by manufacturer. But is it for practical reasons, or because that's what buyers would prefer to buy? (for eg. looks reasons?)). I wouldn't claim that those are unsafe to drive cars. Yes, there will be more sidewall flex/less sharp turn-in, but also more comfort/cheaper and lighter tires, and some claimed that easier to feel/work with mass transfer on track. BTW, twins gazoo racing series on dry summer tarmac tracks with 16x7 wheels - did they choose that size to have less performance / unsafer setup then well proven "most safe when fast driving" R17 wheels?

[~el~jefe~]

Also, on Ice, a narrow tire is not ideal. The smaller the tire, the higher the load per block not dispersed creates plastic physical properties of the rubber. The more it is pushed down, the more it becomes plastic for a moment and not rubber and it will skid across surfaces. Evenly dispersing the weight of a load without stretching the tire rubber will greatly increase control on ice. Counter that please?

[~el~jefe~]

I really think you have no idea about the properties of rubber and how grip is created. 7" wheels create massive flex from a tire that is very expensive and designed to dig into hot dirt or asphalt creating a very special and short lived tire for ultimate friction. You would die if you used those on a BRZ or any production car. There are many ways to create grip on a tire and it is solely dependent on the temperature of the condition, the amount of money one can waste on 1 day of driving, and the car used. Testing has shown that 16" wheels on frs/brz is not stable, and anything more than 17" yields very little in testing. 18" on a track showed maximum cornering and braking increases, a slight bump over 17". But if you read forums, people think that 18" plus 235 tires on regular roads is going to nab them much, and of course it does not. The forum is filled with lots of ill knowledge. There is knowledge out there, but it is in very small quantities.

Another question is this:
1. New Snow?
2. Plowed snow with cars already driving?
3. How deep the snow in either case?

A narrow tire will NEVER see the bottom of the asphalt/concrete in a 2800lbs car after a major snow storm. Therefore, you work on gripping the top of the snow. Next situation is slush, that is a different situation entirely. NExt one is ice, completely different situation for a tire as well, and it does not favor changing treadwidth sizes. Arguably, ice is the most dangerous, and new snow is the most annoying, and commuting is done on partially cleared roads that are mixed. Treadwidth will only help if you drive so extremely slow that you are pushing all the water ice and fluffed snow out of the way and contacting asphalt. Then it matters if you can pump out all the liquids faster.

And this is 5% of one's driving experience, the rest is on cleared roads after it snowed a few days ago and you are driving at 65mph on dangerously narrow tires with huge sidewalls flexing. yay.

[churchx]

BTW, adding to previous post, in some markets lower grade twins were sold with stock 16x6.5 wheels with 205mm wide summer tires. As for countering on ice .. ever saw ice racing rally cars tires? Most often of 15x5 size IIRC. And that's on turbo-ed cars with power/torque twice our have.

[~el~jefe~]

rally cars use 15" wheels on small sports cars not for the snow or ice ability but for weight of the wheel being so nothing and getting more torque from a smaller wheel.

are you considering a racing setup suggestions for people driving in a forum never racing?

[~el~jefe~]

Basically it comes down to this:
Do you use your car to drive in the snow as its primary purpose? When it is dry, do you just not really drive it? Who the hell would do that with a rwd sports car? Dry and cold and black ice and freezing rain is the places one would find themselves in driving a car like this with any forethought. For that the tire should conform to the millions of dollars of engineering that was used to design the suspension.

[churchx]

Rally wheels often weight more then stock wheels of even bigger sizes due need to be strong enough for jumps/bad roads/ability to finish race even with flat tires. Rally cars usually also have more power to not be hampered much by wheel weight. So for weight of wheel being reason?

I'm just answering your claim that narrow tires on ice and snow will work worse. Ones that need grip way more then people driving on public roads and at legal speeds and have team budget to choose anything seem to think different. First you highlight - "for SPORTS car", then mention for "fast driving", and now - that i'm suggesting for people not racing? :/

[~el~jefe~]

you really have not read or want to read anything I said. I am writing this not to counter you but to permanently have on file thoughts that prove the lemming-like quality of forum people getting smaller wheels, more bouncy tires and etc for winter that does not suit 95% of the drivers on a forum if not 99.8%.

[churchx]

on this forum lemming-like imho would be ones that want to fit widest wheels/tires they can for looks reasons, as them look like outnumbering ones asking for most grip/best handling/race use. Smaller wheels are actually thought of by minority here, even if they would fit well for practicality reasons for ones never ever racing, but they would still value more comfort and .. for example of very same model of tire set of 17" winter tires on mine costed 150eur more then 16" ones.

[Shark_Bait88]

Having driven and raced on both a 215/45/17 and 205/55/16 version of the same winter tire, I can say that the differences were about what you'd expect.

The 215s had better grip on bare ice (wider contact patch), but the 205s definitely did better when driving through deep snow. In Chicago there were plenty of times I was driving through deep snow in the winter, I did it for fun. We had a blizzard 3 years ago on the day of the Super Bowl, I went driving for fun with a bunch of friends while everyone else waster their time watching football.

Neither tire felt necessarily great in dry/warmer weather, but handled just fine. Ride quality with the 205s felt better (and the 16s looked cooler). I really don't think you can argue much of a hard point either way. Get what suits you and your budget.

I'll be switching back to a 215/45/17 this year, but that's mainly because I want the wider contact patch for ice racing events. I'd run 15s if it wasn't such a PITA to find a set that works. haha

As long as you have winter tires, you're ahead of the game compared to a lot of the dumbasses that own these cars and try claiming they make it through winter just fine on their summer tires.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Narrow tires for winter is mostly for digging through deeper snow...if that's not the type winter driving you do then I wouldn't sweat getting a 215 or 225.

For those that want 15 inch wheels, the rally wheels designed for Subarus should fit over the red 4 pot brakes. Enkei, Method, Team Dynamics, Braid, Compomotive, Speedline, etc. Check first, but most will work. Also you'll look like a total badass. I have very little need to do this but I still might if I switch to the 4 pots.

As mentioned the bugeye 16x6.5 wheels work really well. The older 16x7 2.5RS (aka JDM STI GC8) wheels will fit. Those might be hard to find at this point though. There are plenty of aftermarket 16 inch wheels that clear too.

OEM 17s make a lot of sense, but goodness they are ugly. Previous gen WRX wheels work fine and can be found cheap.



I need to get some winter tires and I'm looking for recommendations. We get a couple days of snow around here each year, but on those days I just don't go to work. So no need to jump snow drifts, but it's often cold and wet (sometimes icy) enough that an all season would be a bad idea and a waste considering that I have summers. Any ideas?


- Andrew

what are these red 4 pot brakes you mention? I've thought of going down brake sizes to fit smaller wheels, mostly for lighter weight wheels and cheaper tires.