Why not 300+ hp?

[OldSkoolToys]

I agree. I'm not saying its not possible, I'm saying anymore than 200hp might be wishful thinking in N/A form. They still have to keep emissions and MPG a factor in their overall decision. I'm just trying to piece together a logical conclusion given what we know about the FB20 at this point in time.

Speculation is always fun, but we'll have to do what we've been doing for nearly 2 years now....wait until official numbers come out. /ssssiiigghhh

[ichitaka05]

Like OldSkoolToys said, 200hp is pretty good. Si, Celica, & S2k didn't get really good MPG iirc (I can be wrong). Also more HP = more $. I'm pretty sure they can put down 220~240hp out of FB25 (not sure bout FB20), BUT that means they gonna raise the price near S2k range (first sold in US).

Again, 180~200 is something they can do in the nice price range, I think. BUT if it goes over that, they gonna add more $ on the base price tag.

[serialk11r]

I don't know about Celica, but S2k and Si have very short gears. I remember reading on some other forum that Si actually does okay with low 30s, not the really low EPA ratings, but the S2k doesn't fare very well, low-mid 20s I think.

The biggest issue I see with power is insurance, so I hope they keep it reasonable, closer to the 180 end to make this car more affordable.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Like OldSkoolToys said, 200hp is pretty good. Si, Celica, & S2k didn't get really good MPG iirc (I can be wrong). Also more HP = more $. I'm pretty sure they can put down 220~240hp out of FB25 (not sure bout FB20), BUT that means they gonna raise the price near S2k range (first sold in US).

Again, 180~200 is something they can do in the nice price range, I think. BUT if it goes over that, they gonna add more $ on the base price tag.

The s2k was wayyy over priced

That is a big jump but I can see that being done with a tune, better intake and exhaust. A eco tune is going to be much less than what the engine is capable of.

Here hoping they dont hike the price just because they got extra amount of power

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I don't know about Celica, but S2k and Si have very short gears. I remember reading on some other forum that Si actually does okay with low 30s, not the really low EPA ratings, but the S2k doesn't fare very well, low-mid 20s I think.

The biggest issue I see with power is insurance, so I hope they keep it reasonable, closer to the 180 end to make this car more affordable.

The s2k would have better mpg is it made power below vtec which it really doesnt so you can't really take it easy without feeling like you aren't getting anywhere

[zigzagz94]

Too many people seem to be fixated on a random arbritrary horsepower number. As if 300hp was a magic number and if the FT-86 doesn't have that or more it will be a massive fail.

What you need to be focussed on is power to weight ratio. If the car is light enough you won't need 300hp to compete with faster cars. Just pray toyobaru does it's part and keeps the car as light as possible and then you can always add more power to your liking later. Adding power is relatively easy... deleting a lot of weight not so much.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

Too many people seem to be fixated on a random arbritrary horsepower number. As if 300hp was a magic number and if the FT-86 doesn't have that or more it will be a massive fail.

What you need to be focussed on is power to weight ratio. If the car is light enough you won't need 300hp to compete with faster cars. Just pray toyobaru does it's part and keeps the car as light as possible and then you can always add more power to your liking later. Adding power is relatively easy... deleting a lot of weight not so much.

I've been saying that to the power mongers now for almost 2 years. Its a lost cause.

[Exage]

The FB20 in its current state would need a stroke reduction and overbore (more square), longer connecting rods, and higher compression ratio if it's going to be a NA high rev engine. The 1.44:1 rod to stroke ratio is basically garbage for high rpm and bhp applications (both the late 2ZZ-GE and K20A2 had 1.62:1 and street bikes and racing applications can exceed 2:1, optimal is stated at 1.75:1). Even with revised intake and exhaust manifolds, heads, camshafts, and D-4S injection system I think the FB20 engine would take a huge compromise in wear rate at high rpm ranges in addition to the power increase to 200bhp without some altercation to the initial economy set up, this is more than just tossing in forged pistons and connecting rods. That's why I think we've heard basically nothing about this engine.

[ryun84]

It's not really their fault, though. That's how cars are sold. "Hey, check this car out! It has XXX HP!" But then the sales guy forgets to mention that it weighs nearly 4K lbs. And on many car forums and at car meets, the bragging is always done with straight HP numbers. It's almost like people are assuming everyone's car weighs the same.

[4agze]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

I've been saying that to the power mongers now for almost 2 years. Its a lost cause.

people like that tend to just street race, drag race & car show, no skills necessary they compensate on lack of skill by winning thru over powering their opponent.

[Archer256]

as long as that ratio isn't compromised by some savvy tech im happy. Premium sound system + woofer plz. coughlikeacurascough

[Matador]

Originally Posted by NESW20

k20z3 in the civic Si. and that doesn't even have direct injection.

This. The FB has certainly been unimpressive thus far, IMHO.

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

Too many people seem to be fixated on a random arbritrary horsepower number. As if 300hp was a magic number and if the FT-86 doesn't have that or more it will be a massive fail.

What you need to be focussed on is power to weight ratio. If the car is light enough you won't need 300hp to compete with faster cars. Just pray toyobaru does it's part and keeps the car as light as possible and then you can always add more power to your liking later. Adding power is relatively easy... deleting a lot of weight not so much.

I think this might stem from waning confidence that the car will be as light as we hope it will be.

[SOB]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

Too many people seem to be fixated on a random arbritrary horsepower number. As if 300hp was a magic number and if the FT-86 doesn't have that or more it will be a massive fail.

What you need to be focussed on is power to weight ratio. If the car is light enough you won't need 300hp to compete with faster cars. Just pray toyobaru does it's part and keeps the car as light as possible and then you can always add more power to your liking later. Adding power is relatively easy... deleting a lot of weight not so much.

If you read the original post you'll see that I specifically talked about power to weight ratio. Of course 300hp does not mean anything unless weight is taken into consideration. From what I've read this car should easily be under 3,000lbs. While that is very light in this day and age of bulky safety required equipped cars, I'd still like to at least see a power to weight ratio of less then 10lbs per 1 hp. If this car has a turbo, which it should, I don't see 300hp being out of the question. I would even be happy if it was released with 250hp but Toyota also offered a factory tune which would not void warranty and bump the power up to 300hp.

While having a high revving engine sounds great, its really not the best in terms of power or efficiency. I would much rather see a turbo or supercharged engine making better power and offering an attractive fuel economy.

[aliphian]

Originally Posted by SOB

I'd still like to at least see a power to weight ratio of less then 10lbs per 1 hp.

That will have to be done aftermarket. That is better than the S2000 and the STI.

Never gonna happen under $30,000.

[Aki]

Dunno why ppl can't understand that you don't need more power to have more fun, sigh. There's much more to what makes a car entertaining than hp. Buy a base-model Mustang V6 if you want that, 300hp and likely the same price as the FT86.

Originally Posted by Exage

The FB20 in its current state would need a stroke reduction and overbore (more square), longer connecting rods, and higher compression ratio if it's going to be a NA high rev engine.

Would definitely need a shorter stroke than what it has now if it's going to be high-revving and make decent horsepower, or else the piston speeds will put a strain on the motor and hurt long-term reliability. My guess has always been 180-200 rather than 200-240hp, especially given the FB20 engine that we know about right now.