Brakes Upgrades

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

@nikitopo if you're suggesting that BBKs are fitted to provide more brake torque, then you'd only be able to fit those as part of a whole system change. Fitting just fronts/rears without any other changes would really throw off the balance and then you'd also need to consider a master cylinder change too as, for more braking torque through the pistons, you'd need to be moving more fluid.

There were people changing in their WRXs only the front brakes with the ones used in the STIs. As you said the balance was throw off between front and rear and in fact the result was worse. This was happening because the front STI brakes provided bigger brake torque. As a side note, you don't need always a change in the master cylinder. If the pistons apply the same force on a bigger disc brake, then the torque is already bigger. You can imagine this as applying same force using a longer torque wrench. I mentioned this before, but maybe it was not understood.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

The sort you should be trying to avoid on the road IMO that was what I was getting at. I understand why you would do the pedal dance on the track, but maybe TCS Off is as far as you should go on the road (for the slightly higher skill than average joe).

Try to avoid yes, but there are always times when you gotta just slam on the brakes (e.g. avoiding a dog running into the road, or someone runs a red light in front of you, etc.).

[86league]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

That said, the other major factor still counts in that more torque is required to reach maximum stopping force at 60mph vs 30mph so upgrading brake systems can still help reduce stopping distances even if you are into ABS during a stop.

Rotational inertia of the wheel/tire combo is going to be higher as speeds increase. So I think if there was no aero downforce change, the amount of torque you can apply before locking the wheels will increase with speed just due to inertial effects.

Side note - do the twins actually produce downforce at speed in stock config? I thought velox had found it created lift. (edit - found the quote) "The coefficient of lift is .179, meaning the car does generate lift in its stock form." http://www.velox-motorsports.com/sin...itial-CFD-Case

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by 86league

Side note - do the twins actually produce downforce at speed in stock config? I thought velox had found it created lift. (edit - found the quote) "The coefficient of lift is .179, meaning the car does generate lift in its stock form." http://www.velox-motorsports.com/sin...itial-CFD-Case

Yeah C/D also tested and found the BRZ generates 25 lbs lift F and 35 lbs lift R @ 70 mph.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...lete-specs.pdf

[dooms101]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah C/D also tested and found the BRZ generates 25 lbs lift F and 35 lbs lift R @ 70 mph.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...lete-specs.pdf

That's very interesting. Is there a benefit, like fuel economy, for the slight lift? I don't know much about aero but 25lbs/35lbs at 70mph doesn't seem like a whole lot. But still, I would have expected a little downforce since it's a sports car. I wonder how much a lip, skirts, TRD style trunk spoiler effect downforce, I'm guessing they just add more drag than anything...

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by dooms101

That's very interesting. Is there a benefit, like fuel economy, for the slight lift? I don't know much about aero but 25lbs/35lbs at 70mph doesn't seem like a whole lot. But still, I would have expected a little downforce since it's a sports car. I wonder how much a lip, skirts, TRD style trunk spoiler effect downforce, I'm guessing they just add more drag than anything...

My understanding is that the shape of most cars is conducive to lift. Similar to a wing, the air that moves around the top is faster moving than the higher pressure/slower air that flows past the rough underbody. The easiest way to to combat that lift would be the normal aero bits (splitter, rear diffuser, smooth underbody panels, wing/spoiler) but probably not worth the production cost on a street car for Subaru/Toyota. Especially since creating downforce can come at the expense of drag/fuel economy which is normally a higher priority for manufacturers.

[Bripper]

Decided the wilwood 6 piston/4 piston kit werent worth the $. The sti brembo swap like many do arent good because of the trailing/leading staggered pistin design. Designed to be only on rear of knuckle

Went with some top of the line Alcon 6 piston fronts, 4 piston rears. Huge 2 piece rotors to stop my Ls3 whipple boosted 700whp brz

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by Bripper

Reading so many of these bbk thread where all the know it alls saying stock brakes are good enough, tires are the problem, brembos, 6 piston wilwoods and so on are a waste. What is your problem? Dont like upgrades? Fine keep your car stock. Bashing those that do it, saying waste, you wont use it, stock are fine. Clearly you have limited budgets with your woman watching what you spend. Let us all do what we want without bringing up bias, or personal opinions, or quotes from brembo reps. So sick of all the brz/frs weenies saying same crap. Coming from an sti with over 500 to the wheels, trust. Brakes are important, and my stock setup, was not nearly good enough to bring my power from 240whp to 500whp. Now doing an ls3 with a 2.9 whipple kit, need some brakes, end..

1) You necroed a thread that was more than 3 years old to post some irrelevant whining.

2) If you LS swap the car, your situation is different. The vast majority of people who own this platform, /including/ those who track it, do not need upgraded brakes. One of the key things you should be doing to increase performance on this platform is to cut weight and to run on better tires, both will greatly improve braking performance without the need to upgrade your calipers.

3) Nobody is saying they don't like upgrades, but there's a fuck-ton of ricers in this community who will buy very stupid mods for their car without any reasonable purpose. It is the intention of experts in the community to help spend their money intelligently if they're going to do it. Before buying a BBK for this car, every single person who owns it should start with better wheels and tires, cutting weight, and getting performance driving instruction.

Obviously increasing power output significantly, such as via an engine swap, may require upgrades to support that in other areas of the vehicle as well, including braking. But the factory brakes are more than adequate even with full bolt-ons.

If you haven't learned what I said above in all your reading (including old threads from 3 years ago) to understand why people give this advice, I'd say your anger is misplaced and should be focused on yourself for your own failure of reading comprehension.