BRZ vs. Focus ST

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by echo419

Oh god. The only thing about that that's a Focus is the badge. By then it's a completely different car.

Even still for the money is rather not have something called a ford focus when there are other excellent options. Plus cars that don't come with ford's terrible track record on turbo cars.

The only current major issues with Ford's EcoBoost engines exist in the trucks and have to do with the charged air cooler doing it's job too well and shooting humidity into the motor putting the car in reduced power mode. They're already addressing this and redesigning the cooler to be slightly less effective. What have you heard? My best friend is an A tech at Ford and rarely complains about their turbo motors, it's always their auto tranny's.

[echo419]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

The only current major issues with Ford's EcoBoost engines exist in the trucks and have to do with the charged air cooler doing it's job too well and shooting humidity into the motor putting the car in reduced power mode. They're already addressing this and redesigning the cooler to be slightly less effective. What have you heard? My best friend is an A tech at Ford and rarely complains about their turbo motors, it's always their auto tranny's.

I'm speaking more about past attempts at turbo cars like that 4cyvl pos mustang. Well that and like you said I know a couple of guys with ecoboost f150's that have had similar problems and several that just burnt the turbo right to hell at almost 60k on the dot.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Badged as and being are not the same thing.

A bit off-topic, but to me, the car's factory badge is what it is. I never saw the reason for trying to rebadge Scions as Toyotas, Acuras as Hondas, etc.

Then again, I don't really have any brand loyalty either. To me, the badge doesn't mean a damn thing. If Buick or Kia or Ford makes the next awesome super fantastic sports car, I'll buy it.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by humdizzle

what about a GT3? is that a sports car since its a 2 seater designed for track use. Its still a 911 too.

I don't know, is this Alfa Romeo sedan prepared for racing a sedan or a racecar?




I'd say it's a sedan turned racecar, just like the STI and Evo when they were showing up in Rally, just like I'd say the GT3 is a grand tourer turned track machine.

[Mr.Impreza]

Ford? More like BORED.
I only compare my FRS to Bugatti's....
Having a VS. with Ford is like having a vs. with a toddler. NO CONTEST!!!!

[Mr.Impreza]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

A bit off-topic, but to me, the car's factory badge is what it is. I never saw the reason for trying to rebadge Scions as Toyotas, Acuras as Hondas, etc.

Then again, I don't really have any brand loyalty either. To me, the badge doesn't mean a damn thing. If Buick or Kia or Ford makes the next awesome super fantastic sports car, I'll buy it.

No man...you take that Scion badge off.
It's a Toyota. Those marketers at Scion need to be fired and have the badge placed on there foreheads as an indication of failures!

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Mr.Impreza

No man...you take that Scion badge off.
It's a Toyota. Those marketers at Scion need to be fired and have the badge placed on there foreheads as an indication of failures!

Haha the mental image of that cracked me up

[krayzie]

Ford could never bring back Gary.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Nope. Fast between stop lights does not make a sports car. A Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT does 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, but that doesn't make it a sports car. Slapping parts on a commuter to make it fast or improve handling does not make it a sports car.

A sports car is purpose designed from the ground up for handling performance and driving experience. That means if it's a sports car, there is no "economy" version that it's based on. There was no commuter version of the MGB or Trimph Spitfire. There was no commuter version of the S2000 or Miata. These were designed as sports cars from the very first drawings.

There's a market for fast cars based on commuters and economy cars, and some of them are pretty good automobiles. But that doesn't make them sports cars. An STI is an Impreza, which is a family car, not a sports car. An Evo is a Lancer, which is a commuter, not a sports car. I can build out an old Chevy S10 to rival any of them in handling, but doing so wouldn't make it a sports car.

Is there an economy commuter version of the BRZ? Nope. It was designed from the ground up to be a sports car.

Is there an economy commuter version of the Focus? You bet. Therefore, not a sports car.

They're not even remotely in the same class.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I don't think it's really about having an elitist take on it or about "street cred". It's more about having requisite specificity. Qualification for the category isn't merely "fun to drive", it has something to do with the initial design goal allowing for a higher ceiling of performance, agility, control precision (and therefore driver connectedness), usefulness in motorsports, etc. Hot hatches are definitely a blast (I own a 500c Abarth), along side my FR-S)), but their economy car roots limits them in terms of the above.

Personally, I think this blog's test was intended to say "if a person considers either of these cars, this is the one the writer prefers". The value of the comparison will always be up to the reader.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

A bit off-topic, but to me, the car's factory badge is what it is. I never saw the reason for trying to rebadge Scions as Toyotas, Acuras as Hondas, etc.

Then again, I don't really have any brand loyalty either. To me, the badge doesn't mean a damn thing. If Buick or Kia or Ford makes the next awesome super fantastic sports car, I'll buy it.

Isn't it a Toyota or Subaru from the factory but later adds Scion badges for the N.A. market?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Isn't it a Toyota or Subaru from the factory but later adds Scion badges for the N.A. market?

Sure, but my point is who cares? Just different badges on more or less the same car.

[SUB-FT86]

If anybody had read the article the writer explains that the FoST is a "family hatch" that has been upgraded for fun driving and that the BRZ is a "ground up sports car" even though he mentions they are 30K sports cars in the beginning.

[humdizzle]

would you guys consider a mustang a sports car? 2+2 rwd coupe. what about a 4 cylinder automatic convertible mustang? What about the new shelby gt350R.

Now what if they came out with a BRZ STi. no back seats, better brakes, turbo, fenders, etc etc. Would the regular old 2+2 BRZ still be a sports car?

sorry I just have a hard time looking at a 4 cyl mustang or v6 camaro/challenger and calling it a bona fide sports car.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by humdizzle

sorry I just have a hard time looking at a mustang or camaro/challenger and calling it a bona fide sports car.

Fixed that for ya!