Hello? are you Subaru version of FT-86?

[70NYD]

well it only makes sense, toyota is gaining access to subarus boxer tech..

[Snaps]

Boxer is hardly much of a tech compared to Hybrid IMHO lol.

[70NYD]

hybrid is not that special.. (eg trains have been using it for AGES) but its finnaly been made small enough to fit in to a car economically sort of
a engine design is a engine design. if toyota came out with its own boxer we would all be like oooh fuck really? id rather stick to subaru (jsut like if suby came out with a rotary lol) boxer is not just a flat V4 its completly different design

[Snaps]

Hybrid is a completely different system, well at least the Electric motor part of it is.

The difference being that with a Hybrid you have to do COMPLETELY different research, and for a company that has never done it before that is a huge ask (Liken it to the CF loom Toyota developed for the LFA).

Whereas a Boxer engine is just a different layout, it uses very similar parts, it still has a block, head, pistons, valves, etc. that should, in theory, be similar to say - an inline 4's valve lift, duration, timing, the piston's bore/stroke, the gear ratios should be almost identical, and I think you get my point now

Hybrid is a whole new technology for a company like Subaru, a Boxer to Toyota is just a different layout to something they already know how to do.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by 70NYD;21750[B

]hybrid is not that special[/B].. (eg trains have been using it for AGES) but its finnaly been made small enough to fit in to a car economically sort of
a engine design is a engine design. if toyota came out with its own boxer we would all be like oooh fuck really? id rather stick to subaru (jsut like if suby came out with a rotary lol) boxer is not just a flat V4 its completly different design

Do you have a concept of how hsd works? For reference, it's more far advanced than F1 KERS. The batteries are only half the battle, the coupling device is where the real trick is.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Do you have a concept of how hsd works? For reference, it's more far advanced than F1 KERS. The batteries are only half the battle, the coupling device is where the real trick is.

Gas engine on one side, electric motor on the other, connected by some sort of CVT planetary gearbox with two input shafts instead of one and some fancy computer telling which one to do what and when, can't be that hard for a car company. I think it's cost that keeps the other manufacturers away, not complexity.

KERS sounds way more high-tech with its mechanical flywheel energy storage system.

[70NYD]

its the initial research costs that would be keeping them away more than anything.
doesnt matter HOW complicated it gets its STILL the same basic thing as a diesel electric train.. just smaller and the internal combustion engine can also power the wheels directly

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Gas engine on one side, electric motor on the other, connected by some sort of CVT planetary gearbox with two input shafts instead of one and some fancy computer telling which one to do what and when, can't be that hard for a car company. I think it's cost that keeps the other manufacturers away, not complexity.

KERS sounds way more high-tech with its mechanical flywheel energy storage system.

I shit you not, the HSD in the Prius is far more advanced and capable than F1 KERS, not to mention the ultra capacitor Recovery system raced in the Supra HVR. Seriously.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Hybrid is a whole new technology for a company like Subaru, a Boxer to Toyota is just a different layout to something they already know how to do.

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/hybrid.html

They may not have any hybrid production cars, but to say it is a whole new technology would be quite far off. Maybe they are only exchanging small details, maybe all of this is completely made up.

[Snaps]

chulooz and sitobion, I'm not saying it's impossible, not at all. I just haven't heard anything about it!

[chulooz]

Nor did I say you said it was impossible, I just stated that the idea of hybrids is not new technology for Subaru.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I shit you not, the HSD in the Prius is far more advanced and capable than F1 KERS, not to mention the ultra capacitor Recovery system raced in the Supra HVR. Seriously.

Ultra capacitor recovery system sounds like what Honda's hybrid system is. Much simpler than HSD.

As for the KERS, I'm thinking from a manufacturing point. The materials used and precision machining required for the KERS are probably ludicrous. Conceptually I can see KERS being simpler (I think of those old toy cars that you would push a few times to 'rev up' then put down and they would take off...) but I think from an implementation side KERS is probably way beyond the Hybrid Synergy Drive.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Ultra capacitor recovery system sounds like what Honda's hybrid system is. Much simpler than HSD.

As for the KERS, I'm thinking from a manufacturing point. The materials used and precision machining required for the KERS are probably ludicrous. Conceptually I can see KERS being simpler (I think of those old toy cars that you would push a few times to 'rev up' then put down and they would take off...) but I think from an implementation side KERS is probably way beyond the Hybrid Synergy Drive.

You see, you are confusing what is KERS. There are two different types, Battery based systems and flywheel based systems. Manufacturing These systems has it's own box of tricks, but that is far form the issue. It is recovering and store the energy efficiently and being able to apply it in lieu of or in conjunction with the internal combustion motor.

The restrictions placed on KERS handicapped it before it was introduced... it could have been lightyears beyond HSD, but it's not.

direct quote from Luca Marmorini

Will KERS help Toyota's other hybrid projects in road cars or in racing?
Toyota is a world leader in hybrid technology and we are the market leader in hybrid vehicle sales, with over a million sales of the hybrid Prius, a fact we are very proud of. KERS development will inevitably increase our understanding of hybrid systems but, at this stage, we do not expect it to provide any major breakthroughs for road car development. In terms of racing, Toyota has already won the Tokachi 24-Hour race with a hybrid vehicle which uses more advanced technology than the KERS system in Formula 1.

[WingsofWar]

Mr. Fusion + Flux Capacitor

/thread