Track Mods - Plan

[Apex_BRZ]

Ordered a few more things to add to the track setup. Here is the current list of parts on the car, or waiting to be installed. Decided to try a few things to minimize caliper boot failures and heat. I've also switched from ATE SuperBlue to Motul RBF600. This year, the car visited Mid America twice, Autobahn (full track), and Road America. Car feels great! We are headed to Sebring next in January, so I've ordered the TF Duct Kit, KNS Shims, and GT3 ducts to install before the track days.

Engine/Cooling
Stock

Brakes
Carbotech XP10/XP8
StopTech Braided Lines
Touge Factory Front Duct Kit
KNS Titanium Brake Pad Shims
Porsche GT3 Lower Air Guides
GrimSpeed MC Brace
Motul RBF600

Suspension/Steering/Tires
Perrin Solid Steering Rack Mounts
Bridgestone RE-11A Tires (215/45/17)
Enkei RPF1 Wheels
-1.4* Front Camber


Next, I'm getting the Jackson Racing Oil Cooler. Then the BRZ is 100% done, and I'll be focusing on building my other car up to be safe on the track.

Possibly considering moving to XP12 pads from the XP10's next time around. Just got another set of XP10's in, so there is some time yet.

Any other advice or input on the above setup or anything that I should absolutely consider?

[Apex_BRZ]

I've read a handful of people moving to the KNS Titanium Brake Pad Shims, so I decided to give those a shot. However, the more I think about it...the more concerned I am.

I understand the concept of them, attempting to prevent the heat from migrating directly from the pads to the rest of the braking assembly and possibly the fluid. Fair enough. But, what about the brake pad itself?

I'm using Carbotech XP10 pads. Will using the Titanium Shims trap the heat in the pad and will there be enough constant high heat to cause problems with the brake pad or greatly accelerate wear?

[ExxelDistributions]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Motul 300V is what we use in our car. You'll want 5W30 since you track the car. Once you have an oil cooler, you should be safe with 0W20.

You'll have a slight reduction in MPG with the 5W30.

I'll be doing a track event next month and I'm going to be changing my oil before the vent. I want to get 300v but since I don't have a oil cooler you recommend using 5W30? Currently have the Motul Eco-lite 0W20 in there and done 2 track events with that oil and driven total of 2000 miles.

[jvincent]

I haven't looked, but are the heat transfer properties of Titanium that much better, i.e. transfer less heat, than the standard ones? Most metals are pretty good at transferring heat.

That said, I expect that the heating of the pads from the rotor will probably swamp any effects from the shim.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

Will using the Titanium Shims trap the heat in the pad and will there be enough constant high heat to cause problems with the brake pad or greatly accelerate wear?

This is exactly what I was experiencing before I installed an AP Racing Sprint BBK. I was burning through Project Mu Club Racer pads like they were made from recycled chinese newpaper. This was with titanium shims and the TF cooling kit. The problem isn't just the shims, it's mostly the stock front brakes as a whole being too small for the car IMO for a road course application with sticky tires and a skilled driver putting the car into braking zones at high speeds. The shims, ducts, choice in race pad compound, and fluid can all help to a degree, but you'll still be wearing the weakest point (the pads, in my case) at an accelerated rate due to the entire system in front being too thermally inefficient. The ducting is just a crutch that will help the rotors from overheating into each braking zone, but it is not a true solution and will not increase thermal mass, which is what you really want to keep things in check on a road course. Sure you can keep throwing relatively expensive, relatively thin friction puck race pads and $50 Centric blank rotors at the stock front calipers, but even with titanium shims you'll still eventually burn up the piston dust boots and require caliper rebuilds every season. Ask me how I know.

I wrote a little manifesto over in my build thread about why I finally decided to ditch the stock front brakes and significantly lower my long term operating costs while dramatically improving performance: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...84#post1798884

[Apex_BRZ]

Your thread is exactly what prompted the question. Just looking into it a bit further, I suppose. I'm just curious how much faster the pads will wear compared to with and without those shims.

From your earlier posts after the TF Ducts, it seemed that you were really happy with the results and felt it was worth it. I'm fairly certain I'm not at your driving ability, and hey...maybe I never will be...but I'm willing to test out the ducting, air guides, and shims to see if it works for me at the moment. If not, I'll probably follow your route and go to the BBK Sprint package I've been eyeing for months.

Excellent posts and reviews by the way, it's quite entertaining and I feel I've learned a lot following your posts around the forum. NO, I'm not a stalker.

I feel the shims may be a step backward. What are your thoughts?

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

I feel the shims may be a step backward. What are your thoughts?

They aren't a step backward. They are more of a Catch 22 in my opinion. Meaning if you install them they will help keep radiant heat out of the pistons, dust boots and ultimately the fluid, but they are also a barrier on the other side that can trap heat in the pad especially in the stock caliper since the top of the pads are mostly isolated and heat can get trapped under the mostly closed-off OEM caliper except for two small inspection holes. This trapped heat may be accelerating pad wear as I experienced, but remember I was using 800*C MOT race pads and there aren't many that have a higher MOT than that. Those few hotter pads are also more expensive.

I'd recommend running the titanium shims anyways, but possibly experimenting with different pad compounds. You will inevitably "pay more for less" in the oem pad shape when you shop for extremely high MOT endurance pads compared to a BBK pad shape. In my experience the variety in choices for race pads were too slim and the prices too high for me to justify trying out a bunch of different race pads. That said, I've heard from everyone that's used them that the Project Mu 999 and Endless MXRS, while hideously expensive, are among the best race compounds money can buy.

Personally I'm running Carbotech XP12's front and rear this season.

[Apex_BRZ]

I'm using the Carbotech XP10 pads now, which match the operating range of the Project Mu 999 pads. What other changes to compound are there, and what are the benefits of moving to those over the XP10's? I'm guessing more intitial bite and even better modulation? Any info on how long they might last compared to XP10's, or is that too tough to call based on variables from car to car?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

Your thread is exactly what prompted the question. Just looking into it a bit further, I suppose. I'm just curious how much faster the pads will wear compared to with and without those shims.

From your earlier posts after the TF Ducts, it seemed that you were really happy with the results and felt it was worth it. I'm fairly certain I'm not at your driving ability, and hey...maybe I never will be...but I'm willing to test out the ducting, air guides, and shims to see if it works for me at the moment. If not, I'll probably follow your route and go to the BBK Sprint package I've been eyeing for months.

Excellent posts and reviews by the way, it's quite entertaining and I feel I've learned a lot following your posts around the forum. NO, I'm not a stalker.

I feel the shims may be a step backward. What are your thoughts?

The actual rate of wear will depend on the driver, with get a driver with sufficient skill, and the real answer is a BBK.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

I'm using the Carbotech XP10 pads now, which match the operating range of the Project Mu 999 pads. What other changes to compound are there, and what are the benefits of moving to those over the XP10's? I'm guessing more intitial bite and even better modulation? Any info on how long they might last compared to XP10's, or is that too tough to call based on variables from car to car?

You can't compare specs straight up, as each manufacturer rates their pads independently.

For example, a 200hp GTI and a 200hp FRS, while similar in both power and weight, accelerate differently, have different throttle response, have different powerbands, etc.

The 999 will have more bite and modulation than the XP10. It will also, in actuality, handle more heat than the XP10 as well, and have substantially longer pad life. They also cost like 60% more.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by revolutioN21

I'll be doing a track event next month and I'm going to be changing my oil before the vent. I want to get 300v but since I don't have a oil cooler you recommend using 5W30? Currently have the Motul Eco-lite 0W20 in there and done 2 track events with that oil and driven total of 2000 miles.

The best solution is to get an oil cooler, but barring that, I'd recommend you change to a 5W30.

[juliog]

Don't set foot on the track until you got:

Turbos
Wing
Painted calipers
Sponsor stickers
Remove all catalytic converters and mufflers
Bucket seats
19x10" wheels
Mad camber
Body kit
Vented hood
Coils
Lots of gauges

That's pretty much it


Oh and wrap the whole engine bay in reflect-a-gold

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The best solution is to get an oil cooler, but barring that, I'd recommend you change to a 5W30.

What are your thoughts on an oil cooler and 5w-30?


5w still has a low enough cold pour point for most I'd think?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

What are your thoughts on an oil cooler and 5w-30?


5w still has a low enough cold pour point for most I'd think?

5W30 with a cooler is just fine; that's actually what we use on the CSG BRZ.

However, if you're oil temps are sufficiently low with the oil cooler, there's no actual need to go with the higher weight (although you most certainly can and won't cause any harm by doing so).