New 276hp Civic type R vs FRS/BRZ

[Superhatch]

Originally Posted by _hollywood

atleast with the 240sx you have many different engine swap options etc.....

Take an EG honda, or even an EK (which is 15 years old now) and you have J series, K series (2.0, or 2.4) and B series swaps adding a supercharger or turbo to any of those as well. There is still plenty to do in the Honda world. What would a 240 get swapped with? An RB20 with no parts support, an RB25 for about 2.5K also with little aftermarket support here in the US. Really a 240 will get an SR20, an LS motor, or a 2jz are your best options and the latter two require a bunch of work.

I've owned an sr20 swapped 240, and they are great fun, but they aren't the end all to whats available from the early 90s.

[wrxgoose]

Originally Posted by thill

I think this is good news. The more the merrier That said, would this car even be sold in the US?

I have a strange feeling that it wouldn't be. typical Murica

[Speedy000]

^lulz! that one jaw dropping moment when he says the 86 isnt a sports car.
as for that new type-R.....I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED THE TYPE-R HATCH FAP FAP FAP

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by vteclol

rally the 86 fanboys

Incredible. That Spoon guy is smoking some good shit. Obviously he is the leader of all leaders when it comes to Honda fanboys. He developes good shit no doubt. But to say that the 86 is not a sportscar is fucking blasphemy. What a moron and I totally will disregard anything that clown says from now on.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

With just their initial runs they said they have already come very close to breaking the record.

I know everyone is getting down on the FWD Honda here, but the CTR and ITR models were usually always pretty great for what they were. I for one would welcome this car into the fold.

Ford makes a 220hp fwd car and lots of people really give them props. Honda is going to make a 276hp fwd car which is on track to break the Nurburgring record and people here give them a ton of shit for it. Ok...

I think if we had gotten ANY version of the CTR in the last 15 years we might have a different take on this car and what Honda is actually capable of in the fwd world.

Let me clarify my personal position since you quoted me. I have no problem w/ it being FWD myself. Whatever, it's a Civic, cool. Go get that record from Renault, more power to them. I'm just tired of the comparison to the 86, and people talking shit about it especially against cars that don't actually exist, nobody can buy, people know nothing about.

Guess what, if your 86 is slow, it's your own fault. Nobody is stopping you from having a 2500lb GT86 w/ 450hp, 1.10g of grip and 60-0 braking under 100 ft but yourself. Scared a $40,000 Civic Type R might be faster at something? Open your wallet, grab a wrench and start turning it. That's what this car is about.

I'm also a little skeptical about the 'stock' Renault's time after watching the specially cropped video hiding the interior and digging more on the interent about them perhaps running on a shortened version of the track that day, and also the relatively slow times of the same car on Tsukuba compared to other competitors that should have been slower on the Nur. I have questions about the Renault 'record' and Honda going after it just means more marketing nonsense to me at this point until I see proper evidence of a true stock Civic Type R doing it. Not a stripped down model w/ a full cage and special tire and brake compounds, etc. I'm not really upset at Honda, except for the more modern BS production cars, but at the whole Nurburgring thing. It's starting get lame to me to the point I don't even really care. I'm not sure I trust any of the claims anymore. I still remember the whole GTR thing when Porsche said they couldn't replicate Nissan's times, then Nissan said something about the ECU or whatever. Bleh.

Each of these so called 'stock' cars may as well be actual Stock Cars because they all seem to have a little of the ole Smoky Yunick in them. We're going to have to start measuring the cars w/ templates to make sure they aren't 5/6 scale models.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Incredible. That Spoon guy is smoking some good shit. Obviously he is the leader of all leaders when it comes to Honda fanboys. He developes good shit no doubt. But to say that the 86 is not a sportscar is fucking blasphemy. What a moron and I totally will disregard anything that clown says from now on.

Well, the 86 is a solid coupe w/ a more rigid chassis so obviously too inferior a platform to be compared to a convertible like the S2000 (true sports car). Or the supremely fast CRZ and DC5 Integra??

3-4x's the money? The S2000 was >$40,000 new almost 15 years ago w/o adjusting for inflation. He is smoking some stuff...

In other words (official Japanese translation btw), we just dropped a shit ton of money to build our new shop and tool it. I don't have the capital to develop parts for a new platform so I will BS my ass off to convince people to buy used S2000s to clear my current current inventories thus maximizing my profits.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

You obviously haven't been following actual 86 development much, so allow me to educate you.

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/t...809-2rleu.html

Those others are special edition packages, not 'upgrades. The upgraded 86 isn't out till 2015 at the earliest.

And why the hell would you ever eat at Burgerking??
____

Smoke the twins all over? I swear, some comments are from people that don't know why they bought an 86 or don't own one. I highly doubt that fat blob Civic is going to even best the Renault's magical/questionable Nur time. See if it can even keep up w/ the 2015 300hp Golf R w/ 4 motion and DSG or next years 3100lb Mustang that's just a bit bigger than the 86.

The rest of us that own an 86 and know what we bought and what it can do don't give a rat's ass about the Civic Type R. I also don't care about any car over 2800lbs for a DD personally. The next Stang is still 300lbs over my threshold.

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

Let me clarify my personal position since you quoted me. I have no problem w/ it being FWD myself. Whatever, it's a Civic, cool. Go get that record from Renault, more power to them. I'm just tired of the comparison to the 86, and people talking shit about it especially against cars that don't actually exist, nobody can buy, people know nothing about.

Guess what, if your 86 is slow, it's your own fault. Nobody is stopping you from having a 2500lb GT86 w/ 450hp, 1.10g of grip and 60-0 braking under 100 ft but yourself. Scared a $40,000 Civic Type R might be faster at something? Open your wallet, grab a wrench and start turning it. That's what this car is about.

I'm also a little skeptical about the 'stock' Renault's time after watching the specially cropped video hiding the interior and digging more on the interent about them perhaps running on a shortened version of the track that day, and also the relatively slow times of the same car on Tsukuba compared to other competitors that should have been slower on the Nur. I have questions about the Renault 'record' and Honda going after it just means more marketing nonsense to me at this point until I see proper evidence of a true stock Civic Type R doing it. Not a stripped down model w/ a full cage and special tire and brake compounds, etc. I'm not really upset at Honda, except for the more modern BS production cars, but at the whole Nurburgring thing. It's starting get lame to me to the point I don't even really care. I'm not sure I trust any of the claims anymore. I still remember the whole GTR thing when Porsche said they couldn't replicate Nissan's times, then Nissan said something about the ECU or whatever. Bleh.

Each of these so called 'stock' cars may as well be actual Stock Cars because they all seem to have a little of the ole Smoky Yunick in them. We're going to have to start measuring the cars w/ templates to make sure they aren't 5/6 scale models.

if you dont care about the civic and you dont like frs comparisons, i would suggest that you dont post in this thread. honestly, i dont think they are in direct competition but i can see why they are being compared. hot hatches have been stealing sales from sports cars for decades now. bringing up modified cars into the mix doesnt help anybody considering your griffon example of the frs is still slower than many of the civics running around tsukuba. also, nurburg and tsukuba times shouldnt have much of a correlation considering the sheer size difference.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by fatoni

if you dont care about the civic and you dont like frs comparisons, i would suggest that you dont post in this thread. honestly, i dont think they are in direct competition but i can see why they are being compared. hot hatches have been stealing sales from sports cars for decades now. bringing up modified cars into the mix doesnt help anybody considering your griffon example of the frs is still slower than many of the civics running around tsukuba. also, nurburg and tsukuba times shouldnt have much of a correlation considering the sheer size difference.

Thx for the suggestion. Not really. It's good to have counterpoints to circle jerks, doesn't seem you are going to offer that service anytime soon as a self proclaimed Honda fanboy. Besides, I was replying to someone who quoted me, like you just did. So why don't you stop. I recommend you stop quoting people you don't want to post.

Lol, how many of those Civics were running a stock engine and transmission? Nobody linked Nur times w/ Tsukuba but you so no comment. That's just another read fail on your part.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

Thx for the suggestion. Not really. It's good to have counterpoints to circle jerks, doesn't seem you are going to offer that service anytime soon as a self proclaimed Honda fanboy. Besides, I was replying to someone who quoted me, like you just did. So why don't you stop. I recommend you stop quoting people you don't want to post.

Lol, how many of those Civics were running a stock engine and transmission? Nobody linked Nur times w/ Tsukuba but you so no comment. That's just another read fail on your part.

the difference between you and me is that im not saying that i dont care about this comparison. i dont mind making a comparison. thats why i look in the versus sub forum. im not a honda fanboy and i dont know where i proclaimed that so if were going to point out failures in comprehension, theres one. also, heres a quote of you linking nurburg times to tsukuba results.

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

Let me clarify my personal position since you quoted me. I have no problem w/ it being FWD myself. Whatever, it's a Civic, cool. Go get that record from Renault, more power to them. I'm just tired of the comparison to the 86, and people talking shit about it especially against cars that don't actually exist, nobody can buy, people know nothing about.

Guess what, if your 86 is slow, it's your own fault. Nobody is stopping you from having a 2500lb GT86 w/ 450hp, 1.10g of grip and 60-0 braking under 100 ft but yourself. Scared a $40,000 Civic Type R might be faster at something? Open your wallet, grab a wrench and start turning it. That's what this car is about.

I'm also a little skeptical about the 'stock' Renault's time after watching the specially cropped video hiding the interior and digging more on the interent about them perhaps running on a shortened version of the track that day, and also the relatively slow times of the same car on Tsukuba compared to other competitors that should have been slower on the Nur. I have questions about the Renault 'record' and Honda going after it just means more marketing nonsense to me at this point until I see proper evidence of a true stock Civic Type R doing it. Not a stripped down model w/ a full cage and special tire and brake compounds, etc. I'm not really upset at Honda, except for the more modern BS production cars, but at the whole Nurburgring thing. It's starting get lame to me to the point I don't even really care. I'm not sure I trust any of the claims anymore. I still remember the whole GTR thing when Porsche said they couldn't replicate Nissan's times, then Nissan said something about the ECU or whatever. Bleh.

Each of these so called 'stock' cars may as well be actual Stock Cars because they all seem to have a little of the ole Smoky Yunick in them. We're going to have to start measuring the cars w/ templates to make sure they aren't 5/6 scale models.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the difference between you and me is that im not saying that i dont care about this comparison. i dont mind making a comparison. thats why i look in the versus sub forum. im not a honda fanboy and i dont know where i proclaimed that so if were going to point out failures in comprehension, theres one. also, heres a quote of you linking nurburg times to tsukuba results.

Oh I see what you were 'trying' to say. You actually seemed to say the Nur and Tsukuba times don't match because one track is longer than the other. No shit, I never said otherwise. I apologize, it takes me a little time to translate Fatoni, so bear with me. What you failed to comprehend was the point of the difference in performance of the Renault Megane RS 265 Trophy between the Tsukuba circuit and Nurburgring relative to similar competitors. That's called a discrepancy and has nothing to do w/ one track being longer the other adding more time.

So you want to compare, let's do so.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/tsukuba.html

There is the 265 RS w/ the 108th fastest time for a production car @ 1:07.50. Not as impressive as the Nur results in relative terms. Slower than the Griffon's time considerably w/ it's stock 197crankhp motor which was faster than the 458, ZR1 and GTR Spec V. So I feel comfortable enough w/ the chassis on my 86 to not get 'smoked' by a Civic, thank you.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Incredible. That Spoon guy is smoking some good shit. Obviously he is the leader of all leaders when it comes to Honda fanboys. He developes good shit no doubt. But to say that the 86 is not a sportscar is fucking blasphemy. What a moron and I totally will disregard anything that clown says from now on.

I wouldn't really say it's blasphemy, just personal opinion. I haven't watched the video yet, but as I said in another thread, there are people out there that think sports cars are two-seat only. Beyond that, there are people that only consider two-seat roadsters a true sports car. It's arguing about personal definition, really, just like some people don't consider the Mustang or Genesis Coupe a sports car.

Back to the topic... I wish we would see the new Type R here, but it'll be Euro-only, like always.

[adprokid]

I think it will handle great and it will outperform many cars in its category.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYvjLJls864"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYvjLJls864[/ame]

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

I wouldn't really say it's blasphemy, just personal opinion. I haven't watched the video yet, but as I said in another thread, there are people out there that think sports cars are two-seat only. Beyond that, there are people that only consider two-seat roadsters a true sports car. It's arguing about personal definition, really, just like some people don't consider the Mustang or Genesis Coupe a sports car.

Back to the topic... I wish we would see the new Type R here, but it'll be Euro-only, like always.

Well his opinion stinks ass. I still can't believe the head of a well renowned tuning company would say such a thing. Yet a convertible is a true sportscar? WTF is that shit! That guy needs to get his head checked. But he's a Honda humper and I understand. He's got all his eggs riding on Hondas. He's also made remarks in the past about Toyota engines sucking... Funny how he got an 86 to... slander it?! Fucking moron and I totally have lost respect for that idiot. FUCK SPOON!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

Oh I see what you were 'trying' to say. You actually seemed to say the Nur and Tsukuba times don't match because one track is longer than the other. No shit, I never said otherwise. I apologize, it takes me a little time to translate Fatoni, so bear with me. What you failed to comprehend was the point of the difference in performance of the Renault Megane RS 265 Trophy between the Tsukuba circuit and Nurburgring relative to similar competitors. That's called a discrepancy and has nothing to do w/ one track being longer the other adding more time.

So you want to compare, let's do so.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/tsukuba.html

There is the 265 RS w/ the 108th fastest time for a production car @ 1:07.50. Not as impressive as the Nur results in relative terms. Slower than the Griffon's time considerably w/ it's stock 197crankhp motor which was faster than the 458, ZR1 and GTR Spec V. So I feel comfortable enough w/ the chassis on my 86 to not get 'smoked' by a Civic, thank you.

thats not what i was trying to say. im simply saying that different race tracks favor different qualities in a car. there are power tracks and handling tracks and a bunch of things in between. its not a discrepancy. even if it was a discrepancy, the website you quoted has the renault at 135 (which is lower on the list than 108 at tsukuba) on the nurburg ring list. if using these rankings you bring up are indicative of anything, it would be that the ring time would be suspiciously high, not low. it also happens to be directly below the m6 on both lists so relative to other cars it seems like its pretty consistent on the list.