To anyone who has bought a Scion in Canada

[7thgear]

You have to understand that the general impression held by forum-going car enthusiasts is that there is no such thing as a good dealership with the exception of two cases.

1. You have a close friend at the dealership that knocks prices down for you for both parts and labour.
2. You work at the dealership.

As I mentioned previously, the large overhead of running these mega-mall type dealerships necessitates the high prices. We all get that, but most people (my opinion) don't want that. Furthermore as can be verified by pretty much any car-forum in the WORLD, the majority of car sales-people know jack shit about cars. An interaction between a car enthusiast and a car sales-person is the same as a WW2 veteran listening to firstworldproblems.jpg of some 16 emo kid.

The only reason any dealership is still operational is because, sadly, the majority of the buying public are as uneducated in the matter as the dealers.

Your staff reads from que cards and brochures, memorized to perfection but with zero comprehension.

Maybe I'm jaded because i'm a gearhead, I don't know. But being inside ANY dealership gives me the feeling like I'm surrounded by idiots.

Except Porsche, I walked into a Porsche dealership to buy a special dealer-order only stud wearing dirty clothes and they treated me with respect, notbad.jpg.

[SCIONMONTREAL]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

You have to understand that the general impression held by forum-going car enthusiasts is that there is no such thing as a good dealership with the exception of two cases.

1. You have a close friend at the dealership that knocks prices down for you for both parts and labour.
2. You work at the dealership.

As I mentioned previously, the large overhead of running these mega-mall type dealerships necessitates the high prices. We all get that, but most people (my opinion) don't want that. Furthermore as can be verified by pretty much any car-forum in the WORLD, the majority of car sales-people know jack shit about cars. An interaction between a car enthusiast and a car sales-person is the same as a WW2 veteran listening to firstworldproblems.jpg of some 16 emo kid.

The only reason any dealership is still operational is because, sadly, the majority of the buying public are as uneducated in the matter as the dealers.

Your staff reads from que cards and brochures, memorized to perfection but with zero comprehension.

Maybe I'm jaded because i'm a gearhead, I don't know. But being inside ANY dealership gives me the feeling like I'm surrounded by idiots.

Except Porsche, I walked into a Porsche dealership to buy a special dealer-order only stud wearing dirty clothes and they treated me with respect, notbad.jpg.

I think that you have a right to your opinion, as insulting as I find it, and as I have stated, anyone who would like to spend some time here with me to get a feel about what we are all about is welcome to do so and make their own opinion.

[SCIONMONTREAL]

Originally Posted by solma

I read this forum for 1 year now, this is my first post, the FRS would be for me a great replacement for my my actual car, an old 99 solara with a full sport suspension(i do some lapping during the summer), I did go to your place a few week ago(work just in the building(gold window) on the other side of the 40.
Being a owner of toyota for the last 17 years, the experience was... hmmm.. not really good, dont get me wrong, the place is nice but the 2 saleman I met did not even know that scion had put a preorder page on there website + when i ask them to go look at the website they did not know it was scion.ca now that was funny.
In anyway what really piss me off is when he ask me 1500$ deposit just to put my name on a paper list, i could understand a deposit for a real preorder in the system but to put my name on a paper list!!!!!
I really felt like they were thinking a was 18 years old guy that had never buy a car in its life, they follow with the "mombojombo" of being rare and i had to the deposit right now ...

To say not good first experience with scion!!

Nice meeting you dude btw !!!

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by SCIONMONTREAL

I think that you have a right to your opinion, as insulting as I find it, and as I have stated, anyone who would like to spend some time here with me to get a feel about what we are all about is welcome to do so and make their own opinion.

yet you still haven't answered my question regarding billing clients for book time or actual work performed time.

Dealership per hour rates are typically the same as any quality shop (80-90 bucks here in the GTA), I will gladly go to a Dealership if you bill me the exact time it took your tech to do the job and not whatever is in the book.

which is it in your dealership?

[Jeff Lange]

Typically speaking, everyone bills book time. Dealership or independent repair facility. While most independents will have a lower shop rate (less overhead), most of the time the time billed is the same either way. This goes both ways though, when that accessory that pays 2.1h takes the tech 4h, you pay 2.1. While most experienced technicians may be able to do most jobs faster, it is not always the case. Still, that is made up for by the less-experienced staff getting paid a lower rate or straight time instead of flat-rate. Charging book time is standard practice, I wouldn't knock it either, IMO.

Being in business is about making money, there's nothing wrong with that. There is more overhead at a dealership, that goes without saying, and if the benefits of servicing at a dealership do not appeal to you, then I guess that's up to you, but comparing the level of service and honesty I got from independent repair shops to the dealership, the dealership was almost always worth it.

Still there are good and bad from both worlds. I know of some high quality shops and crappy shops on both sides.

Basically, if you are looking to spend the least amount of money possible, the dealership is not always the best choice, but I cannot stress that you should check with them too, as sometimes they are cheaper! (Oil changes, other common maintenance items). They will typically try to sell you other higher priced items, but that's up to you. However, despite the higher price, what the dealership is trying to sell is value for your money, and it's up to you to decide if the "value" that they're offering to you is worth the higher price tag. For me, it usually is, and I am not just a dumb customer who doesn't understand how things work.

All that being said, I know how to work on my own cars, rarely if ever do I actually need someone to work on my car for me. I usually do it because I am lazy, etc., or I just feel like it.

Jeff

[SCIONMONTREAL]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

yet you still haven't answered my question regarding billing clients for book time or actual work performed time.

Dealership per hour rates are typically the same as any quality shop (80-90 bucks here in the GTA), I will gladly go to a Dealership if you bill me the exact time it took your tech to do the job and not whatever is in the book.

which is it in your dealership?

Don't take this the wrong way, but in the last posts you have proceeded to call my staff (that you have never met) incompetent ignorant people as well as made a handful of generalizations that aren't very 'kind' about dealerships, and you know what? You are entitled to your opinion.

In the benefit of 'bonne entente' you can say whatever you want, but I expect a level of civility when talking to people, if you can't offer it and find me lacking as a poster, you can just ignore my comments.

[zootramp]

I love my dealer service at Tony Graham in Ottawa (Toyota, Lexus and come June Scion).
They have always given me and my family great service.

I believe that the sales team should buy lunch for the service advisers every day as that is why I love Tony Graham.

Don't get me wrong, My sales Rep John Moustatos (613-225-1212 x727) is the best and has never done me wrong (See him for an FRS) but the service team has gone out of their way to treat me with respect. They have repaetedly gone the extra mile to help me with out nickle and dimeing me. Sam Gueli (Toyota) and Kwok Lau (Lexus) really know how to run an honest service department.

Of course, they charge estimate book times for labour rather than actual time spent.

So, Scion Montreal... We are the customers.
Being defensive will ALWAYS lose you customers

The question is ...
Does your service department charge for actual time to complete the job or estimate book times?

[Saibot]

Originally Posted by zootramp

I love my dealer service at Tony Graham in Ottawa (Toyota, Lexus and come June Scion).
They have always given me and my family great service.

I believe that the sales team should buy lunch for the service advisers every day as that is why I love Tony Graham.

Don't get me wrong, My sales Rep John Moustatos (613-225-1212 x727) is the best and has never done me wrong (See him for an FRS) but the service team has gone out of their way to treat me with respect. They have repaetedly gone the extra mile to help me with out nickle and dimeing me. Sam Gueli (Toyota) and Kwok Lau (Lexus) really know how to run an honest service department.

Of course, they charge estimate book times for labour rather than actual time spent.

So, Scion Montreal... We are the customers.
Being defensive will ALWAYS lose you customers

The question is ...
Does your service department charge for actual time to complete the job or estimate book times?

Hi John Moustatos.

[FR]

This thread is confusing, every single dealer in Canada does Book, wtf is the argument here ?

[Jeff Lange]

Originally Posted by FR

This thread is confusing, every single dealer in Canada does Book, wtf is the argument here ?

As do most independents, it shouldn't even be an argument.

Jeff

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lange

As do most independents, it shouldn't even be an argument.

Jeff

have you tried negotiating with your independent?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by SCIONMONTREAL

Don't take this the wrong way, but in the last posts you have proceeded to call my staff (that you have never met) incompetent ignorant people as well as made a handful of generalizations that aren't very 'kind' about dealerships, and you know what? You are entitled to your opinion.

In the benefit of 'bonne entente' you can say whatever you want, but I expect a level of civility when talking to people, if you can't offer it and find me lacking as a poster, you can just ignore my comments.

first of all, welcome to the internet.

second, i did not call your staff anything, i have my peceptions of all dealership and dealership staff from my Canadian dealership visits over the course of my life, including one in France and a few in Russia.

suggesting that my views will radically change by completing a 6 hour road trip without owning an actual Scion is just silly, so i really don't know why you're upset that i'm so openly declining your invitation.

Like you said, i'm entitled to my opinions and i know what they are. But so far you're tone is reminding me of another sterotype . But whatever, i'm just one person, don't get so hung up about my opinion.

[djdnz]

7thgear you really need to relax, no need to be so insufferable. Why are you getting so worked up, dealers are a necessary evil to at least buy the car, whether you service your car there or get your parts there is your own choice.

[FR]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

first of all, welcome to the internet.

second, i did not call your staff anything, i have my peceptions of all dealership and dealership staff from my Canadian dealership visits over the course of my life, including one in France and a few in Russia.

suggesting that my views will radically change by completing a 6 hour road trip without owning an actual Scion is just silly, so i really don't know why you're upset that i'm so openly declining your invitation.

Like you said, i'm entitled to my opinions and i know what they are. But so far you're tone is reminding me of another sterotype . But whatever, i'm just one person, don't get so hung up about my opinion.

Dude ... you did insult his staff

Your staff reads from que cards and brochures, memorized to perfection but with zero comprehension.