Sports cars: a mid-market hole?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Adding to their growing appeal is the fact that they are getting closer to sports cars in terms of their handling characteristics - check out the reviews of the new Fiesta ST and the upcoming Mk 7 GTI with eLSD.

Yeah all the positive reviews got me thinking about upgrading my GTI to the MK7 w/perf pack, but I realized it wouldn't make sense for the way I use it. I basically only drive the GTI in the rain/snow or when I make runs to Costco or Ikea. I don't track or autocross it now that I got the FR-S, so it's basically become a 6/10ths or less car for the street. Not sure upgrading to the MK7 GTI makes sense for that.

The only noticeable improvement would be the power/torque for daily driving, but a stage 1 tune on my MK6 gets me there for much cheaper than the cost of trading-in.

[chappys4life]

I am eyeballing a MKV gti as a fr-s replacement. DarkSunrise do you like your gti?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by chappys4life

I am eyeballing a MKV gti as a fr-s replacement. DarkSunrise do you like your gti?

I do. Mine is the 4-door version, and it's basically a jack-of-all-trades for me. Refined, sporty, and practical. Not the best in any one area, but good enough in all three.

If cars like the S4 Avante or CTS-V wagon appeal to you as being well-rounded cars, the GTI is like the poor man's version.

[chappys4life]

I am looking at a 4 door as well. I have a once a month at least maybe more 4 hour round trip to start making for work and wanted something more practical. I was eyeballing wrx's but moving to FL so awd isnt as important. I liked the Focus ST too just hated the stereo setup and woud like it to be around for another year or 2 to see how it holds up.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by chappys4life

I am looking at a 4 door as well. I have a once a month at least maybe more 4 hour round trip to start making for work and wanted something more practical. I was eyeballing wrx's but moving to FL so awd isnt as important. I liked the Focus ST too just hated the stereo setup and woud like it to be around for another year or 2 to see how it holds up.

I actually had a WRX STI hatch before the GTI. The GTI would be the better choice, especially for long highway trips. Much quieter on the highway. Better gas mileage (34 mpg vs. 22 mpg). Nicer interior and stereo. More comfortable seats.

Might want to look at the Fiesta ST as well. People who've driven it seem to like that car a lot.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Rampage

It may be an acquired taste but I love my little Spyder!

I sooo wanted to love that car. But chrissakes, why couldn't they have made it look less like this:


and more like this:

??!!

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by qoncept

Huh? I hate Nissan and even I can admit the 370Z is a great car. You're asking what car exists and then specifically ignoring the only one that does.

Many reviewers describe it as being less a sports car and more of a muscle/pony type car - crude, brutish, with unsophisticated handling. I'll pass (although I love the rev-matching tech for its manual transmission)!

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah all the positive reviews got me thinking about upgrading my GTI to the MK7 w/perf pack, but I realized it wouldn't make sense for the way I use it. I basically only drive the GTI in the rain/snow or when I make runs to Costco or Ikea. I don't track or autocross it now that I got the FR-S, so it's basically become a 6/10ths or less car for the street. Not sure upgrading to the MK7 GTI makes sense for that.

The only noticeable improvement would be the power/torque for daily driving, but a stage 1 tune on my MK6 gets me there for much cheaper than the cost of trading-in.

Makes perfect sense. For me it's the choice of what I buy - BRZ or Mk7 GTI or Fiesta ST? I don't commute so the practicality concerns aren't so pressing for me. (Hell, I'm even having thoughts about the new C7 - the tech in that car is truly mindblowing. Not quite sure how well it will drive in a Canadian winter even with snows though.)

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I sooo wanted to love that car. But chrissakes, why couldn't they have made it look less like this:


and more like this:

??!!

I agree that it could have been prettier and sleeker but the way it is designed really makes a lot of sense. The car is completely modular and almost everything unbolts from the central chassis. Keeping it small and light with a relatively long wheelbase almost guaranteed a blocky styling design. Lengthening the body to smooth the design would have added weight. The car is everything that the FR-S is but even more so with the exception of sleek or practical. Of course, the 2ZZ and The 6 speed make it a whole different kind of beast. Toyota really blew it when they did not include those from the factory.

If you have a few thousand dollars you can bolt on these panels and make it look like this :

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Keeping it small and light with a relatively long wheelbase almost guaranteed a blocky styling design.

? Of course not. If anything, some multiple-curvature surfaces on a short wheelbase should look quite voluptuous!

Lengthening the body to smooth the design would have added weight.

??? Who said anything about lengthening the body? But then again, that said, look at the new Viper, a MUCH longer car on a MUCH longer wheelbase, and it has CURVES. It's just LAZY styling to give us flat sides and singly-curved surfaces!

The car is everything that the FR-S is but even more so with the exception of sleek or practical. Of course, the 2ZZ and The 6 speed make it a whole different kind of beast. Toyota really blew it when they did not include those from the factory.

They certainly did blow it on that point. And also on the styling which COULD have been much much better, with the same length/wheelbase/modularity!

[serialk11r]

I think the rag top killed the styling along the side and back, minus fenders. It eats up so much space and decreases engine bay accessibility too. The disgusting fenders however still perplex me. If I still have this car for a while and get the paint redone, I might smooth them out with some foam and body filler.

Leave the convertibles to the gt cruiser cars and keep a real roof and body on a no frills MR platform.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ZDan

? Of course not. If anything, some multiple-curvature surfaces on a short wheelbase should look quite voluptuous!

??? Who said anything about lengthening the body? But then again, that said, look at the new Viper, a MUCH longer car on a MUCH longer wheelbase, and it has CURVES. It's just LAZY styling to give us flat sides and singly-curved surfaces!

They certainly did blow it on that point. And also on the styling which COULD have been much much better, with the same length/wheelbase/modularity!

If it just had a same era Celica style front end, 2zz/6M, and hard top this forum probably wouldn't exist. Make the FR-S look fat and slow.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Makes perfect sense. For me it's the choice of what I buy - BRZ or Mk7 GTI or Fiesta ST? I don't commute so the practicality concerns aren't so pressing for me. (Hell, I'm even having thoughts about the new C7 - the tech in that car is truly mindblowing. Not quite sure how well it will drive in a Canadian winter even with snows though.)

If practicality isn't an issue, I wouldn't even bother with a hot hatch to be honest. The C7 and BRZ would definitely be on my test-drive list, in addition to the Cayman, Boxster, Miata, and M3.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

If it just had a same era Celica style front end, 2zz/6M, and hard top this forum probably wouldn't exist. Make the FR-S look fat and slow.

Well, we do have to remember that while it's sad that the 2ZZ and K20 died off, those engines don't pass the latest emissions tests so they would've been scrapped anyways.