Break in Y/N ?

[oldpueblo]

This is probably a good reason to break it in per the manual as well:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=380

[Superhatch]

Can we just lock these threads when they start?

The first reply should be "Search", because we've done this dance DOZENS of times already on this site.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

This is probably a good reason to break it in per the manual as well:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=380

Good reason if you're scared of what random people posts.

If the manufacturer REQUIRES a break-in to offer you warranty, then it has to be explicitly stated and would not suggest it as a warranty.

That post, while useful, is pointless for warranty purposes. If the engine breaks, you're covered as long as you don't exceed the warranty stipulations. That is all.

If you want to power slide out of a dealer lot, be my guest, just don't be scared of some datalogging by the manufacturer in fear of voiding what you are entitled to.

-alex

[jonbonazza]

Speaking of break-ins (Don't mean to go off on a tangent, sorry. :x), does anyone know if Scion's 30k mile warranty is for unlimited oil changes? Reason I ask is that I prefer to change my oil after 1-2k miles of engine break-in, and if I can get them to do it for me, it would save me some trouble since neither my current jack set nor my current ramp set fit under my car w/o removing the front bumper _-_. When I bought the car, they said to bring it in every 5k miles, but I'd like to take it in next week to have a 1.5k mile oil change done for break-in purposes. Anyone know if they will do it for free?

[Mad1723]

Originally Posted by jonbonazza

Speaking of break-ins (Don't mean to go off on a tangent, sorry. :x), does anyone know if Scion's 30k mile warranty is for unlimited oil changes? Reason I ask is that I prefer to change my oil after 1-2k miles of engine break-in, and if I can get them to do it for me, it would save me some trouble since neither my current jack set nor my current ramp set fit under my car w/o removing the front bumper _-_. When I bought the car, they said to bring it in every 5k miles, but I'd like to take it in next week to have a 1.5k mile oil change done for break-in purposes. Anyone know if they will do it for free?

My dealership offers me to do it whenever I want to. Basically, they recommend 5K miles, but you can still bring it earlier for the break-in oil change

[oldpueblo]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Good reason if you're scared of what random people posts.

If the manufacturer REQUIRES a break-in to offer you warranty, then it has to be explicitly stated and would not suggest it as a warranty.

That post, while useful, is pointless for warranty purposes. If the engine breaks, you're covered as long as you don't exceed the warranty stipulations. That is all.

If you want to power slide out of a dealer lot, be my guest, just don't be scared of some datalogging by the manufacturer in fear of voiding what you are entitled to.

-alex

Powersliding out of he dealership isn't really relevant, you can probably do that keeping it under 4k. My point is if the manual specifically states how to break it in, and you specifically ignore that, AND it turns out that it's something that can be tracked and proven (allegedly), then why couldn't they use that to deny some kind of relevant warranty claim? I mean why would they need to officially state they can deny a warranty claim when they're already stating the "proper" way to break it in? They get to decide what is abuse after all, it's their warranty. Why not just play it safe for 1000 miles, that's such a short time.

Originally Posted by Mad1723

My dealership offers me to do it whenever I want to. Basically, they recommend 5K miles, but you can still bring it earlier for the break-in oil change

I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure the first oil change is set at 7500. A lot of dealerships still say 3k or 5k, I suspect its a money making thing in terms of repeat business generally. With Scion the first two years are free, which actually means only like three I think because of the length in-between them. All the dealership will probably do is just burn through the free ones earlier than usual.


http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop...-your-oil.html

[Mad1723]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure the first oil change is set at 7500. A lot of dealerships still say 3k or 5k, I suspect its a money making thing in terms of repeat business generally.

I called my salesman and verified with him. He confirmed that I can use the oil changes whenever I see fit. YMMV

[Wes]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

Can we just lock these threads when they start?

The first reply should be "Search", because we've done this dance DOZENS of times already on this site.

Seriously, I've seen this topic multiple times.. along with other ones, all you guy gotta do is search.. if the search here sucks, try google.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

My point is if the manual specifically states how to break it in, and you specifically ignore that, AND it turns out that it's something that can be tracked and proven (allegedly), then why couldn't they use that to deny some kind of relevant warranty claim? I mean why would they need to officially state they can deny a warranty claim when they're already stating the "proper" way to break it in? They get to decide what is abuse after all, it's their warranty. Why not just play it safe for 1000 miles, that's such a short time.

By that reasoning, we can sue Subaru for false advertisement (i.e. "the back seats fits 4 wheels for track use"... "oh, we'll deny you warranty if car is used in competition or racing events").

I can ignore anything I want in the manual... or I can follow everything to a T. You do realize the manual also excludes warranty if I "abuse" the car, right? So what constitutes abuse?

I can play it safe for 1000 miles, but (by what most people on the forums use the car for) it's a moot point since you have another 35000 miles to "void" warranty by abuse.

The gist of it is this: just because you did not follow the recommended break-in procedure is no reason to have your warranty void. Many people do not follow the factory service schedule (I have no intention of doing so), and that won't void any warranties, and I really see no reason to be alarmed for following my own service intervals (which is based on oil testing, NOT some pre-determined schedule from the factory that blanket covers all drivers in North America, not just me) or my own driving habits.

-alex

[BRZ21]

close enough?

[lazyluka]

ROFL at all the data logging fear.

Yes the car has a black box, but it pulls out like 5 to 6 seconds of pre-crash data and that's about it.

Your modifications are much more likely to affect your warranty than how you drive during break in.

[oldpueblo]

It's not so much a fear as sometimes companies (see Subaru example above) will use any tiny data point to screw you, or to put it nicer, save themselves money. If all it takes to play it safe is drive under 4k for 1000 miles then I'll just do it. It was just interesting that it appeared to log it from that guys post.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by lazyluka

ROFL at all the data logging fear.

Yes the car has a black box, but it pulls out like 5 to 6 seconds of pre-crash data and that's about it.

Your modifications are much more likely to affect your warranty than how you drive during break in.

Two different boxes. The 5-6 seconds of crash data is held in the airbag deployment module, upon deployment. Try to crash gently to avoid detection.

The engine ECU on the other hand can log quite a bit of info. Whether it does of not is a different matter. It certainly logs emission related failures.

Manufacturer recommended run in procedures are essential for long engine life. Incorrect procedures will, not may, will, show up at some point as the result of using incorrect procedures as excessive and premature ring wear if too much throttle and rpm are used and glazed badly seated or broken rings if too little throttle or rpm are used. Every badly run in engine will suffer these failures, every single one of them. Whether you still own the car at that point is the only variable.

[lazyluka]

Toyota/Subaru could not void your warranty if you exceeded the RPM guideline. I mean it does say except for emergencies and how can someone say if you were in an emergency or not unless they were right there. Also, I really doubt they would waste their time developing a logging system for break in as it technically only occurs once for the life of the car. For a car that's trying to be as cheap as possible, it just doesn't make sense to waste time and money worrying about break in, and if they did worry so much about break in, does that mean that they knew the car would have engine troubles to begin with?

If they had a moving log file for let's say the last 1000miles travelled, then yeah that could work, but I seriously doubt it would void your warranty and I think if your engine blows up before 2000miles it wouldn't matter too much how you broke your car in (assuming you drove it on the public roads).

The other aspect here is the legal issue, and I am no lawyer, but the only thing it says in the manual is about the EDR recording for around 30 seconds (which it doesn't). Now if they were logging your driving patterns with enough parameters such as (throttle position, revs etc) for an extended period of time, surely they couldn't use this data against you legally. I mean for the EDR it requires the customers permission or a warrant, I would imagine private driving data would be the same.