Carbon Fiber Hood/Trunk

[Itgb]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

My statement was actual fact. It really is about 1/3rd the weight difference of steel. Your statement is just as variable when it comes to part contruction as mine, both are useless statements there.

I have yet to see any reasonable priced CF hood be 50% lighter than an OEM aluminum piece.

You're right, generalizations don't mean much; it is a case by case basis. However, I was just trying to give an estimate of what is possible. BMW said they reduced the weight of a steel hood by 75% with CFRP. That's a fact. The technology is there and has been proven.

Nobody said it would be cheap... you've got to pay to play. That M3 CRT was 130,000 Euros.

[mines13]

Well over twice as much. The cheapest S2000 hood Ive seen in dry carbon is around $3500 from ASM. They pretty much just go up from there. Wet carbon is just laid over fiberglass with a ton of resin epoxy. The stock hood will be much lighter then anything aftermarket south of $2000. I did not know about the trunk lid being aluminum too, can I see a source for that? That is cool if it is.

[Dimman]

Also you have to be careful with the term 'dry' carbon. Some manufacturers use the term... flexibly. Dry-layup is a somewhat arguable term (I've seen it applied to a layup that used vacuum-transferred liquid polyester resin), but pre-preg cloth (the good dry carbon) is not arguable at all.

Pre-preg carbon has a special dry heat-curing epoxy applied to individual strands of carbon, in the correct resin/fiber ratio before being woven into cloth. This is the 'dry' carbon you want. And pay for.

[WingsofWar]

dry carbon composite stuff is an expensive process

[Levi]

Originally Posted by bambbrose

Correct. Hypothetically the carbon fiber can never be more than 37% lighter than aluminum, let alone 50%.

All construction methods aside, just looking at density.

A 20 lb steel hood, if made entirely of aluminum, would weigh 6.8 lbs.

The equivalent hood in CFRP would weigh 4.32 pounds.


Which leads me back to my very first argument. Why spend $1000 + to save a couple pounds?

True, but it depends for whom. And then it is not just a couple of pounds, because a couple of pounds here, a couple of pounds there, and there, you can save quit an amount of pounds. But sure there is no need of putting 10.000 € of CF parts to make the car lighter, and then add a 2000 Watt soundsystem.

[AE86XGC8]

check this lotus out.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/14/n...ing-hong-kong/

TW Auto Limited, a Hong Kong Lotus and turbocharging specialist, built the car in about six months. As you'll see in the pics, carbon fiber coats the entire exterior of this 2002 Elise, along with almost every panel inside. Even if it only shaves about 80 pounds from the curb weight, it looks thoroughly sinister. We're digging the way it highlights the car's curves, particularly around the gas filler. Although the engine remains fairly stock, it does feature an upgraded air filter and intake, plus a Stage 2 Lotus Racing Exhaust. The car was also fitted with a KW Suspension and JP Racing Wheels. For more pictures, check out the gallery cribbed from Flickr.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by AE86XGC8

80 pounds

The Elise had fiberglass panels to begin with and is a rather small car, it didn't have much weight to lose.

[Levi]

Nissan GT-R aluminium hood: 12,1 kg
Mine's GT-R carbon fiber hood: 5,2 kg

Nissan GT-R doors: 9,6 kg (x2)
Mine's GT-R doors: 3,2 kg (x2)

On a light car as the AS1 any weight modification will be worthy and be very noticable.

[Crashoverride]

Originally Posted by Levi

Nissan GT-R aluminium hood: 12,1 kg
Mine's GT-R carbon fiber hood: 5,2 kg

Nissan GT-R doors: 9,6 kg (x2)
Mine's GT-R doors: 3,2 kg (x2)

On a light car as the AS1 any weight modification will be worthy and be very noticable.

Agree'ed it is all about power to weight ratio. with this car I think perfect numbers would be 1- 10

[bambbrose]

Originally Posted by Levi

Nissan GT-R aluminium hood: 12,1 kg
Mine's GT-R carbon fiber hood: 5,2 kg

Nissan GT-R doors: 9,6 kg (x2)
Mine's GT-R doors: 3,2 kg (x2)

On a light car as the AS1 any weight modification will be worthy and be very noticable.

Mine's GT-R carbon fiber hood: $6950

Mine's GT-R doors: $8000


Nobody is arguing that carbon fiber is heavier. We are arguing that MOST cheap carbon fiber is heavier.

Mine's is top of the line, and the price tag reflects that.

Will someone pay $23k for a BRZ, and throw $15K at carbon parts? No, they won't. If they do, they are crazy. If they have that kind of money, they should go buy a GT2.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Levi

Nissan GT-R aluminium hood: 12,1 kg
Mine's GT-R carbon fiber hood: 5,2 kg

Nissan GT-R doors: 9,6 kg (x2)
Mine's GT-R doors: 3,2 kg (x2)

On a light car as the AS1 any weight modification will be worthy and be very noticable.

Yes, but they're dry CF, of course it's gonna be lighter.

Originally Posted by bambbrose

Mine's GT-R carbon fiber hood: $4600

Mine's GT-R doors: $8000


Nobody is arguing that carbon fiber is heavier. We are arguing that MOST cheap carbon fiber is heavier.

Mine's is top of the line, and the price tag reflects that.

Will someone pay $23k for a BRZ, and throw $10K at carbon parts? No, they won't. If they do, they are crazy. If they have that kind of money, they should go buy a GT2.

Ditto

[bambbrose]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Yes, but they're dry CF, of course it's gonna be lighter.




Ditto

Shit I got the Mine's hood price wrong.

It's $6,950!! LOL

[WingsofWar]

to much generalizing of what cf is across ill informed tuners

Carbon Fiber w/ Fiberglass structure (CFRP molding) = At most times heavier than Aluminium, not always, also great alternative to steel hoods or steel components = Cheap Cost

Carbon Fiber Dry Layup = Lighter than aluminium (at times stronger) = Super High Premium

Carbon Fiber Composite = Carbon poly with; Kevlar/Aluminum/CarbonTubes providing the strongest structure possible without the penalty of relative weight = VERY expensive process VERY expensive cost.

For the average tuner to take a 20-25k car and drop 10-30k on top quality dry carbon parts isn't likely. I can see shops building demo cars, and race groups put that much cash into carbon fiber for any car to save as much weight as possible, AS1 included.

But when we talk Carbon Fiber automotive parts in a general sense to the average/beginner tuner, we mostly refer to CFRP, which at most is purely show than real performance.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

to much generalizing of what cf is across ill informed tuners

Carbon Fiber w/ Fiberglass structure (CFRP molding) = At most times heavier than Aluminium, not always, also great alternative to steel hoods or steel components = Cheap Cost

Carbon Fiber Dry Layup = Lighter than aluminium (at times stronger) = Super High Premium

Carbon Fiber Composite = Carbon poly with; Kevlar/Aluminum/CarbonTubes providing the strongest structure possible without the penalty of relative weight = VERY expensive process VERY expensive cost.

For the average tuner to take a 20-25k car and drop 10-30k on top quality dry carbon parts isn't likely. I can see shops building demo cars, and race groups put that much cash into carbon fiber for any car to save as much weight as possible, AS1 included.

But when we talk Carbon Fiber automotive parts in a general sense to the average/beginner tuner, we mostly refer to CFRP, which at most is purely show than real performance.