BRZ vs. Focus ST

[SigmaHyperion]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I know things vary by region, but that statement isn't even close to reality here in North Carolina. I just did a 50 mile radius search, here's what I see:

1 BRZ Premium Automatic for sale - $27,365

44 Scions for sale - cheapest one was $25,823, highest was $33,357

You're right, it varies a TON locally...

If you're willing to wait a month, and pay $700 to have it shipped, you can get a fully-loaded BRZ Limited, with the most expensive Accessory package for almost exactly the same price as the CHEAPEST Scion you can get in your area. It's no exaggeration that people are getting BRZ Limited's right now for $5-10K less than others were just a few months ago. Those ports gotta get cleared out for the 2014s, just like Ford's gotta clear its lots. And the longer you can keep the ports clear, the easier it is to use that existing pent-up demand to ask that full MSRP (or more) from people when the 14's roll-in in 3 months.

The Focus ST is the same. At the same time I was seconds from signing a deal on a $29,800 ST3 for $25,300 3 weeks ago, people in most areas couldn't get under $28K. They didn't believe the pricing we could get in DFW, even with an internet link right in front of them showing them pricing. Just like most people can't believe the deals you can get from Clint at Heuberger around here.

Even the big domestics have almost entirely done away with the blanket nationwide incenties they once had. Vehicle demand is FAR too niche-y, and they realized they were giving cars away in places they were selling just fine at. Note if you look at Ford's site, first you have to put in your Zip because the incentives are localized, then read the fine-print and you'll find that "some vehicles are exlcuded". In my case, when buying my wife's Titanium Focus HB for example last month, I couldn't get a dealer to honor any of the $2500 in rebates available on the beautiful Performance Blue because they couldn't keep that color in stock at full retail.

The Asian makers are no different. Everyone has to play the 'clear-the-lot' game at the end of the model year. Everybody. But the asian automakers have traditionally (though this has been changing in recent years) relied more on back-end money to the dealer, to allow them room to offer incentives as they please, and less on front-end money that the customer can see as obvious rebates which, in large enough amounts, can really cheapen your image. The former "Big Three" are coming around on it slowly though, making a lot more of the incentives localized, making them back-end dealer money, or other monies based on financing/qualification, not just blanked cash on the hood.

[SigmaHyperion]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Yeah, I find it totally bizarre that the older Civic Si hatchbacks from 2003-2005 still go for well over $10,000 on Auto Trader with nearly 100,000 miles.

Limited vehicles like that will always have an appeal.

From the same era, and to offer a domestic vehicle counterpoint, the my 2004 GTO is, literally, worth the exact same amount today as it was when I bought it used in 2008.

Domestic Vehicle. 5 years old. $0 depreciation.

The only ~50,000 miles on a 10-year-old vehicle certainly helps. But even ones on dealer lots around here with 80,000 miles on them are going for the same price that I paid for mine with 10,000 miles on it 5 years ago.

Used car pricing in general has just been weird lately. New cars are getting so expensive and it's harder for many people to get the loans they once could. Plus vehicles just last a lot longer than they used to making Used an attractive offer. Makes for a very robust used market.

Especially for the more 'niche' vehicles that may no longer have an equivalent on the market anymore.

[WolfpackS2k]

Overall I agree with you, but for Subaru the BRZ placement works differently. None of the dealerships carry any stock (in this region). You place your order from the factory. So getting rid of the "old models" for the new ones makes no sense. And given that the changes for 2014 are almost unnoticeable that has zero effect on the price of brand new 2013s.

[SigmaHyperion]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Overall I agree with you, but for Subaru the BRZ placement works differently. None of the dealerships carry any stock (in this region). You place your order from the factory. So getting rid of the "old models" for the new ones makes no sense. And given that the changes for 2014 are almost unnoticeable that has zero effect on the price of brand new 2013s.

You're absolutely right for those (most) dealers that are only getting the standard allocation of 1 or 2 a month. They'll have those cars sold before they ever show up. That was my problem in DFW -- I couldn't even get one test-drive.
I just got lucky twice in the same week -- on a business trip a dealer had a Limited on the floor so that I could at least get a good look at the interior and judge what I was afraid was going to be poor quality, and the next day a dealer in DFW called and said they had someone back out on a Premium that they knew I wasn't interested in but they'd let me test-drive.

But unlike most dealers, there are those that get more. And then there's Heuberger that ais getting 40, 50+ a month, so there's room for money to come off the price. And even if a dealer doesn't have stock to sell, Subaru does; sitting in its ports, on its ships coming across the ocean. That's why it's giving them to Heuberger to clear out in a hurry, and it's playing games with the dealer holdback to allow him to go WAY under "invoice" to get them sold. It's the same thing that Ford's doing with the ST, it's just a bit more localized with the BRZ is all. In many places your ST choices are limited, and pricing isn't terribly incentivized; but come down to DFW and there are dozens to choose from and you'll get the best pricing in the country. That just seems to be where Ford has gone and shoved all their inventory -- probably offering dealers more holdback in exchange for taking the inventory.

I disagree on the price difference between model years though. Regardless of feature changes (or lack thereof) an otherwise identical 2013 will always be worth less than a 2014. Always. It will take a lot less miles on the 2013 before it'll pass the psychological barrier of being an "older" car (and "first-year" to boot). I hope you're right, and I hope that difference is negligible -- it was something I gave a lot of thought to before placing my order with Heuberger a few weeks ago rather than waiting a few months for a 2014 at similar pricing.

[Re~Mix]

Some fuel for the fire...

http://jalopnik.com/scion-fr-s-vs-fo...-buy-977137467