LOLing at the guys on the370z.com

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I honestly think you guys don't get it either. I'm sure that there is 370Z lovers who like the FRS/BRZ. There is enthusiast of all sorts out there with different needs. You make it seem like you must only like lightweight cars with 200 hp to be a "enthusiast". Then you should sell your 911 and M3 also since it makes way too much horsepower and weight. The 370Z is 3229 lbs, very close to a 997 911 in weight.

The 911 also has the engine in the back which gives it great steering despite its weight (weight distribution is almost 50/50 during braking, and shifts to the rear during acceleration to keep it planted). The rear engined, RWD layout of the 911 is what gives it its legendary handling, and if you don't think Porsche cares about light weight look at the GT3RS and Cayman R. Porsche knows that shaving weight from a car is the best way to improve handling, and their most driver focused cars go to extreme lengths to reduce weight. The BRZ is going to be at least 450lbs lighter than the 370Z. That is a difference you will definitely be able to feel.

Plenty of BMW people feel that the best M3 was the E30. Look up how much that one weighed and how much hp it had and get back to me.

[LSxJunkie]

Most people drive street cars. Most people's major concern is how fast they can get down the street (usually a 3 lane highway cutting in and out of cars). This is not the car for them. This car is going to be, objectively, slow. Many people in 370Zs subscribe to this. Many people in 370Zs don't drive their cars hard enough to know that the diff overheats because it's tucked too far up into the body and the oil gets too hot because Nissan was a little ambitious with it's lubricating needs.

Every so often I get to drive a 550whp blown C6. That's a goddamned riot. However, that's a riot in a straight line and down the highway. It has MT ET Streets on the back and would probably overheat and/or blow up within 15 minutes of the first session of an HPDE. And that's if I didn't spin the car because the drag radials would keep rolling over on their sidewalls.

Some of the most fun I've had in a car was tossing a Honda Fit Sport down a mountain road backroad. The only thing I wished for, while doing this, was tires with a little bit stiffer sidewall because they got a bit squirmy. Unfortunately, going back up the mountain road was an exercise in frustration.

The FRZ86 will be a hoot in and of itself. Mash throttle and hang on is not the only way to get your rocks off in a car. My eventual garage includes both a lightweight tossable fun car for laughs and a C6Z06 for when I want to drive something permanently set on KILL. They do different things, but are both fun in different ways.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes

I think that's something only you're seeing to continue this crusade against people who favor lightweight vehicles.

I am not against lightweight cars but I am also not against sport cars that weigh couple hundred lbs over 3000. I am the most neutral when it comes to it. I have driven heavier cars that still feel like sports cars.

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

The 911 also has the engine in the back which gives it great steering despite its weight (weight distribution is almost 50/50 during braking, and shifts to the rear during acceleration to keep it planted). The rear engined, RWD layout of the 911 is what gives it its legendary handling, and if you don't think Porsche cares about light weight look at the GT3RS and Cayman R. Porsche knows that shaving weight from a car is the best way to improve handling, and their most driver focused cars go to extreme lengths to reduce weight. The BRZ is going to be at least 450lbs lighter than the 370Z. That is a difference you will definitely be able to feel.

Plenty of BMW people feel that the best M3 was the E30. Look up how much that one weighed and how much hp it had and get back to me.

I know about the E30 M3 you don't have to tell me. I would still take a E36-46 M3 over it.

I also find it funny how people think the 370Z is a muscle car and is only good on the straights.

[Spaceywilly]

Most people drive street cars. Most people's major concern is how fast they can get down the street (usually a 3 lane highway cutting in and out of cars). This is not the car for them. This car is going to be, objectively, slow. Many people in 370Zs subscribe to this. Many people in 370Zs don't drive their cars hard enough to know that the diff overheats because it's tucked too far up into the body and the oil gets too hot because Nissan was a little ambitious with it's lubricating needs.

Every so often I get to drive a 550whp blown C6. That's a goddamned riot. However, that's a riot in a straight line and down the highway. It has MT ET Streets on the back and would probably overheat and/or blow up within 15 minutes of the first session of an HPDE. And that's if I didn't spin the car because the drag radials would keep rolling over on their sidewalls.

Some of the most fun I've had in a car was tossing a Honda Fit Sport down a mountain road backroad. The only thing I wished for, while doing this, was tires with a little bit stiffer sidewall because they got a bit squirmy. Unfortunately, going back up the mountain road was an exercise in frustration.

The FRZ86 will be a hoot in and of itself. Mash throttle and hang on is not the only way to get your rocks off in a car. My eventual garage includes both a lightweight tossable fun car and a C6Z06. They do different things, but are both fun in different ways.

exactly. There is more than one way to have fun in a car. Some people only care about going fast, and for them there are plenty of muscle cars out there. Some people prefer a great handling car, and for us there is the ft86. There are cars that go fast and have great handling, like a ZR1 or 911, but those cars are a lot more expensive in order to give you both.

[SUB-FT86]

This is for the folks who think a 350Z/370Z is a straight muscle car.


57 3:12.0 NISSAN NISMO 370Z LL2 2/10
58 3:12.5 NISSAN 350Z TRACK LL1 11/06
59 3:12.5 FORD MUSTANG V-6 LL1 2/11
60 3:13.0 CHEVROLET COBALT SS LL1 11/08
61 3:13.3 FORD MUSTANG GT LL1 2/10 62
3:13.3 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION MR LL2 11/08
63 3:13.5 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION IX MR LL1 11/06
64 3:13.7 BMW 135i COUPE LL2 11/08
65 3:13.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 R-SPEC LL1 2/11
66 3:13.8 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX STI SEDAN LL2 2/11
67 3:14.0 LEXUS IS F LL2 11/08 68 3:14.6 AUDI S5 LL2 11/08
69 3:14.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 LL1 2/10
70 3:15.0 HONDA S2000 CR LL2 11/08
71 3:15.7 PONTIAC SOLSTICE GXP LL1 8/07
72 3:16.0 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 8/07
73 3:16.2 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 2/10
74 3:16.3 DODGE CHALLENGER SRT8 LL2 11/08
75 3:16.5 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX SEDAN LL1 2/11
76 3:16.6 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX HATCHBACK LL1 2/10
77 3:16.6 LOTUS ELISE SC LL2 11/08
78 3:16.7 MAZDA RX-8 R3 LL2 2/11
79 3:17.1 MINI JOHN COOPER WORKS LL1 2/10
80 3:17.5 INFINITI G37 COUPE SPORT LL2 11/08
81 3:18.2 DODGE CHARGER SRT8 LL2 11/06
82 3:19.0 MAZDA RX-8 LL1 11/06

Now on this list we have a Lotus Elise SC, a Mazda RX8, and a S2000 CR. These cars are pretty much what everyone considers top notch carvers yet the Lotus's P/W ratio didn't help it here which had me baffled and the S2k CR isn't even a match for the 350Z here.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

This is for the folks who think a 350Z/370Z is a straight muscle car.


57 3:12.0 NISSAN NISMO 370Z LL2 2/10
58 3:12.5 NISSAN 350Z TRACK LL1 11/06
59 3:12.5 FORD MUSTANG V-6 LL1 2/11
60 3:13.0 CHEVROLET COBALT SS LL1 11/08
61 3:13.3 FORD MUSTANG GT LL1 2/10 62
3:13.3 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION MR LL2 11/08
63 3:13.5 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION IX MR LL1 11/06
64 3:13.7 BMW 135i COUPE LL2 11/08
65 3:13.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 R-SPEC LL1 2/11
66 3:13.8 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX STI SEDAN LL2 2/11
67 3:14.0 LEXUS IS F LL2 11/08 68 3:14.6 AUDI S5 LL2 11/08
69 3:14.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 LL1 2/10
70 3:15.0 HONDA S2000 CR LL2 11/08
71 3:15.7 PONTIAC SOLSTICE GXP LL1 8/07
72 3:16.0 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 8/07
73 3:16.2 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 2/10
74 3:16.3 DODGE CHALLENGER SRT8 LL2 11/08
75 3:16.5 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX SEDAN LL1 2/11
76 3:16.6 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX HATCHBACK LL1 2/10
77 3:16.6 LOTUS ELISE SC LL2 11/08
78 3:16.7 MAZDA RX-8 R3 LL2 2/11
79 3:17.1 MINI JOHN COOPER WORKS LL1 2/10
80 3:17.5 INFINITI G37 COUPE SPORT LL2 11/08
81 3:18.2 DODGE CHARGER SRT8 LL2 11/06
82 3:19.0 MAZDA RX-8 LL1 11/06

Lap times tell you nothing about what a car is like to drive. Having fun in a car is about more than getting fast laps. There isn't a number that tells you how fun a car is to drive and that's why Subaru and Toyota will have a hard time selling this car to the internet forum generation.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Lap times tell you nothing about what a car is like to drive. Having fun in a car is about more than getting fast laps. There isn't a number that tells you how fun a car is to drive and that's why Subaru and Toyota will have a hard time selling this car to the internet forum generation.

So what you're trying to tell me is HANDLING doesn't play a part in getting good lap times? It's a balance of HANDLING and POWER that gets good lap times. You can clearly see on that list that some powerful cars are slower around a track than less powerful ones. I just think you guys are just as bad as the guys from 370Z.com because you guys also talk shit about the Z too.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

So what you're trying to tell me is HANDLING doesn't play a part in getting good lap times? It's a balance of HANDLING and POWER that gets good lap times. You can clearly see on that list that some powerful cars are slower around a track than less powerful ones. I just think you guys are just as bad as the guys from 370Z.com because you guys also talk shit about the Z too.

I'm not talking shit about the Z, but I do think the ft86 will have better handling than the Z. It won't have more power, so it will not have good lap times. I'm ok with that. Handling is what puts a smile on my face personally, I could care less about lap times.

Have you ever driven a kart? If not you should try it. They aren't fast but it beats the pants of off anything else I've driven in terms of how fun it is to drive. I never realized how terrible my WRX handled until I started karting. If the ft86 gives me kart handling in a practical and inexpensive package, that is perfect for me. Power can always be added to a car easily, great handling is much more difficult to add.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

This is for the folks who think a 350Z/370Z is a straight muscle car.


57 3:12.0 NISSAN NISMO 370Z LL2 2/10
58 3:12.5 NISSAN 350Z TRACK LL1 11/06
59 3:12.5 FORD MUSTANG V-6 LL1 2/11
60 3:13.0 CHEVROLET COBALT SS LL1 11/08
61 3:13.3 FORD MUSTANG GT LL1 2/10 62
3:13.3 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION MR LL2 11/08
63 3:13.5 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION IX MR LL1 11/06
64 3:13.7 BMW 135i COUPE LL2 11/08
65 3:13.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 R-SPEC LL1 2/11
66 3:13.8 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX STI SEDAN LL2 2/11
67 3:14.0 LEXUS IS F LL2 11/08 68 3:14.6 AUDI S5 LL2 11/08
69 3:14.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 LL1 2/10
70 3:15.0 HONDA S2000 CR LL2 11/08
71 3:15.7 PONTIAC SOLSTICE GXP LL1 8/07
72 3:16.0 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 8/07
73 3:16.2 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 2/10
74 3:16.3 DODGE CHALLENGER SRT8 LL2 11/08
75 3:16.5 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX SEDAN LL1 2/11
76 3:16.6 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX HATCHBACK LL1 2/10
77 3:16.6 LOTUS ELISE SC LL2 11/08
78 3:16.7 MAZDA RX-8 R3 LL2 2/11
79 3:17.1 MINI JOHN COOPER WORKS LL1 2/10
80 3:17.5 INFINITI G37 COUPE SPORT LL2 11/08
81 3:18.2 DODGE CHARGER SRT8 LL2 11/06
82 3:19.0 MAZDA RX-8 LL1 11/06

Now on this list we have a Lotus Elise SC, a Mazda RX8, and a S2000 CR. These cars are pretty much what everyone considers top notch carvers yet the Lotus's P/W ratio didn't help it here which had me baffled and the S2k CR isn't even a match for the 350Z here.

what is this a list of?

[Neutral_Eyes]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I am not against lightweight cars but I am also not against sport cars that weigh couple hundred lbs over 3000. I am the most neutral when it comes to it. I have driven heavier cars that still feel like sports cars.

That's not what I said. On more than one occasion you've generalized folks here for being all about lightweight cars and made implications that they were too close minded to accept heavier cars. It should be easy to see that everyone's got a slightly different view of what makes a "sports" or "enthusiast" car, so it's best to just accept that and move on instead of trying to create an issue out of it.

[n2oinferno]

Looks like Lightning Lap times from C&D at VIR on the Grand West Course.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

I'm not talking shit about the Z, but I do think the ft86 will have better handling than the Z. It won't have more power, so it will not have good lap times. I'm ok with that. Handling is what puts a smile on my face personally, I could care less about lap times.



Have you ever driven a kart? If not you should try it. I never realized how terrible my WRX handled until I started karting. If the ft86 gives me kart handling in a practical and inexpensive package, that is perfect for me.

I know what kart like handling feels like but we don't know for sure how this car will feel yet. We can say that it will feel like a MX5 but I believe we should test drive it first because some reviews say it has neutral handling and others say otherwise.

Originally Posted by fatoni

what is this a list of?

Virginia International Raceway times.

[Guff]

Hey guys...

This about how the AS1 will be perceived by the public, not about how good/bad the 370z is.

[mn011890]

i haven't really seen too much as far as opinions on toyotanation. the few i have seen were from a few months back before the production models were revealed and those seemed mostly positive. i for one am excited. however im not going to pass judgement as far as it being better or worse than any existing vehicle until i test drive....otherwise i risk adding fuel to the fire for the arguing going on here already