Supercharger or Turbo ?

[Matador]

As long as I can pull out what's there and put in an EJ20T or EJ25T with minimal effort, I really don't care. Not that I plan to, but I like to know it's an option.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

i think what most people are forgetting in this thread is that, this Toyota variant engine is completely built from scratch. While this may seem like nothing new on paper, a 2L flat-4, it is not a flat-4 that anyone would be familiar with from any aspect. The engine is not built by subaru and then just planted into the FT, so what you may know about previous designs by subaru that are similar may not completely comply to this D4S.

Did I miss the article bout the engine isn't built by Subaru? Even though it's gonna be built @ Subaru of Indiana?

[ddoouugg]

I think it's built by Subaru but has some Toyota technology. He's saying it's not a typical subie engine because of the toyota tech i think.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Did I miss the article bout the engine isn't built by Subaru? Even though it's gonna be built @ Subaru of Indiana?

It is? I thought it was to be built at Gunma... or both?

p.s. Subaru block, Toyota heads. Best tech of both companies.

[cbishop11]

From the Quotes thread:

"According to Tada-san, the FT-86's engine and platform are both unique to the car and not directly shared with any other Subaru models. He says the powerplant was developed from scratch for the car using "the latest technology from both companies" with Toyota's environmental goals in mind."

I'm assuming some existing aftermarket parts might bolt up, but it is very likely that internal parts for this engine could be different from the existing 2.0L.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by cbishop11

From the Quotes thread:

"According to Tada-san, the FT-86's engine and platform are both unique to the car and not directly shared with any other Subaru models. He says the powerplant was developed from scratch for the car using "the latest technology from both companies" with Toyota's environmental goals in mind."

fixed

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

It is? I thought it was to be built at Gunma... or both?

p.s. Subaru block, Toyota heads. Best tech of both companies.

If I read/remember the article correctly, it's gonna be produced @ Indiana.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Axel

best "tech", yes... The dual injection system heads were designed by Toyota.... but I don't think Toyota is going to suppy, manufacture, or assemble anything on this car... including the Toyota emblems!!

As long as they engineered it, and it is assembled/manufactured to specifications, I don't care it will be done in timbuktu.

I do however, think you will be wrong about that.

[Matador]

LOL. Wow. I can't believe this car is generating these articles, and people don't even know for instance, how low or how far back the engine will be mounted. We've only seen the concept, imagine when close to production prototypes/version hit the show circuit. This car is a halo shot by Toyota. For their image, philosophy and bottom line, this will be the best thing to happen to them since ...... ??!?!!?

Re: The article: The author fails to mention or recognize that the car will more than likely come with equal length headers from the get go, so the boxer rumble sound will be absent from the start. He also brings up an important issue. The ECU.
Having Toyota designed heads, odds are this thing will come with a Toyota management unit. Anyone who has ever tuned a yota will tell you; these things age pretty much f'ing un-crackable. It has been the bane of Toyota tuners or decades, and continues to be so. Maybe Toyota will give us a break and make an easy to work with solution. Maybe not and aftermarket standalone makers will send valentines cards to Toyota for re-invigorating their business. Maybe they will just modify a Subaru unit. or Maybe, this will be the car that ecu tuners everywhere set to work on and finally crack Toyota's God-damned code. Toyota/Lexus tuners every where would rejoice, singing praises... lol

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Re: The article: The author fails to mention or recognize that the car will more than likely come with equal length headers from the get go, so the boxer rumble sound will be absent from the start. He also brings up an important issue. The ECU.
Having Toyota designed heads, odds are this thing will come with a Toyota management unit. Anyone who has ever tuned a yota will tell you; these things age pretty much f'ing un-crackable. It has been the bane of Toyota tuners or decades, and continues to be so. Maybe Toyota will give us a break and make an easy to work with solution. Maybe not and aftermarket standalone makers will send valentines cards to Toyota for re-invigorating their business. Maybe they will just modify a Subaru unit. or Maybe, this will be the car that ecu tuners everywhere set to work on and finally crack Toyota's God-damned code. Toyota/Lexus tuners every where would rejoice, singing praises... lol

Yeah, I heard that Toyota's ECU is pain to re-map... but Subaru's ECU is pain too (not as much as Toyota). I think, only forgiving ECU were '04 STI. Rest are just nightmare. That's why I made ISpeed re-map mine ECU.

[ddoouugg]

great post! It almost makes me want a turbo!

[ichitaka05]

Hm... I'm still goin' NA for Toyota's ver.

[Axel]

(continued from from 2009 Street & Tuner Milestones, by Barry Kluczyk)

Turbo vs. supercharger: The Chevy Cobalt example
When it was introduced in 2005, the Chevy Cobalt SS Supercharged (and its GM cousin, the Saturn Ion Redline) delivered performance thrills on the cheap. Its supercharged 2.0-liter engine delivered 205 horsepower and lots of low-end, neck-pulling torque (peaking at 200 lb-ft). The blower was an Eaton-manufactured Roots-type and helped the Cobalt SS hit 60 mph in about 6 seconds flat and run the quarter-mile in the mid 14-second range.

A few short model years later, the Cobalt SS was reborn with an intercooled turbocharger system generating 260 horsepower and 260 lb-ft of torque on the same basic 2.0-liter Ecotec engine platform. Not surprisingly, that extra 55 horses and 60 lb-ft of torque greatly enhanced performance, shaving about half a second off both the 0-60 and quarter-mile times.

More than that, the turbocharger system of the Cobalt SS enables greater performance through modifications of the wastegate and turbocharger itself. The previous supercharged version could be modified only through moderate means, such as a smaller-diameter drive pulley and careful tuning. Cobalt turbo tuners are easily pushing output to more than 25 pounds of boost, taking the engine past the 300-horsepower mark. Simply put, that output isn't possible with the standard supercharger on the SS Supercharged model.


Cobalt SS Supercharged engine


Cobalt SS Turbocharged engine


a typical add-on turbo kit & pricing:

Chevy Cobalt Garrett Turbo GT TunerTurbo Kit for 2005+ 2.2L Ecotec Engine Price: $2,879.99 Shipping Weight: 70.00 pounds

.

[Jordo!]

Eh... I'll just add this to the discussion for shits and grins...

Anyway, if it's too complicated to set up a roots blower on a boxer motor, I guess I'd prefer a turbo over a centrifugal. But... first I want to see what TRD brings to the table before I begin yet another car experiment... I'd rather let them do the R&D...