JUN GT Intake Manifold - It's finally here!

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by prandelia

E85


Rev to 8K all the time,


I've done everything. E85, tune, ACE 350, full 3" exhaust, TODA throttle body, Cusco high capacity coils....everything proven to make more power.

You should have an ACE 250 or even 150 if you are trying to make top end power especially revving out to 8k.

[Westen86]

$7000 in mods yield 200whp? Look, Im not a big numbers guy, I dont care about turbos and STI hp. Im a purist through and through. But there is a limit. Its a gorgeous manifold, congratulations.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Westen86

$7000 in mods yield 200whp? Look, Im not a big numbers guy, I dont care about turbos and STI hp. Im a purist through and through. But there is a limit. Its a gorgeous manifold, congratulations.

I thought this was a useless overpriced $800ish paperweight. Just realized they are over $3,000?!?!? Could get a built cammed head for the same price to rev out higher and actually make a little more power at that price.

The other big problem now with NA FA20s is the new BRZ/86 FA24 coming out soon, wouldn’t be surprised if it was a much easier cheaper swap to do compared to other options. If someone can do a turn key OEM quality swapped FA24 for $8,000 or less then add in FBO + E85 + tune for solid 240whp NA. Should keep up with mild FA20 FI setups. Kind of makes NA FA20s pointless at that point.

[rice_classic]

When you're racing there's only what you can do per the rules and if this was one the last venues to find power within the rules then it is what is - cost be damned. But it did show gains.

The 200whp on a dynojet is not a good number overall. That's the same WHP as my T4 car which has a 55mm Restrictor Plate in it, however the 4 points you bring up are valid and your car would definitely be faster in a straight line vs mine.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

But it did show gains.

Link to proven gains?

[prandelia]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

When you're racing there's only what you can do per the rules and if this was one the last venues to find power within the rules then it is what is - cost be damned. But it did show gains.

The 200whp on a dynojet is not a good number overall. That's the same WHP as my T4 car which has a 55mm Restrictor Plate in it, however the 4 points you bring up are valid and your car would definitely be faster in a straight line vs mine.

Exactly. For my race series, I already make all the power I need, and anything beyond 200whp, I have to detune anyway (which is fine). I can't really remove any more weight. I'm about 2350#, so anything beyond that becomes crazy expensive body panels, which don't save that much and are too pricey to race w2w.

What I am looking for is to simply hold on to power longer to 8k. If this manifold helps me do it, then it's worth it, as it will remain in my car. The amount of $$ I waste on tires each year across all my race/track cars makes the cost of the manifold look cheap. And atleast I can look at it, and not throw it away after 6 sessions over a weekend, like I do with my Hoosiers...lol.

Like I said before, I don't think this loses HP, it prob just doesn't gain as much on a car that already has literally every other possible mod done to it like mine. JUN is a VERY respected company that has a history of making very high quality parts that make power, and this part is no different. I have a dyno scheduled at the end of March to run it with the exact same oil as previously used, just for my own satisfaction. But in the meantime, I'll have it on track and can know pretty fast how this car is doing from my straightaway MPH, and lap times at my home track.

Sure, when the day comes that an FA24 could be reasonably swapped into this chassis, I'd be game. I'm just not interested in K-swapping this car. It already punches WAY above it's weight, and I'm the only sub 2.5L, non-motor swapped, race car that that runs in the top 5-10 in GLTC. There is something really satisfying beating alot of people with this "junk" FA20 motor that everbody shits on outside of BRZ/FRZ owners.

[prandelia]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

You should have an ACE 250 or even 150 if you are trying to make top end power especially revving out to 8k.

The torque that the 350 gives is actually more beneficial for racing....the flat torque curve is one of the reasons this car can punch so far above it's weight. I've toyed with the idea of testing the 250, but not sure if it's worth the loss down low....

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by prandelia

The torque that the 350 gives is actually more beneficial for racing....the flat torque curve is one of the reasons this car can punch so far above it's weight. I've toyed with the idea of testing the 250, but not sure if it's worth the loss down low....

You need torque below 4500 for racing? Especially with 8k rev limiter?

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

See post above,

But what about all other temps in the system and what about after say a track session with a lot of on and off throttle, not just a scenario perfectly designed to allow the aluminum one to perform as optimal as possible from a heat soak scenario IE only WOT the entire time in a straight line.

Perfectly designed scenario...Are you just looking to argue? Hot idling in staging lanes before running down a drag strip is far from perfect, its literally sitting in traffic..

Both IMs will get just as hot regardless of the situation. Metals transfer thermal energy better, that doesn't mean they get hotter. You can have two 100°F blocks, one of Al and one of plastic. The Al will feel hotter to the touch because it conducts it's heat away from it and to YOU better than plastic but they both are still 100°F. If anything the plastic will heat soak more because it can't dissipate the thermal energy efficiently in heat cycling. Additionally, while running E85 like the OP is, the cooling effect of the e85 spray from the port injectors will be greater in the Al IM vs the plastic IM. Ambient air intake temps should be a greater concern; always.

Lastly do not worry so much about the weight of the Al IM vs the plastic IM. I have both, its maybe 1lbs.. The Plastic IM is a dense composite to deal with sitting on a hot engine block with a plenum 2X the size of the MY17+. Since my scenario involved the MY17+ IM, it also should be noted that the wrinkle finish radiates heat better than a smooth one. Heat soak is buzz word on this forum for some reason. I guarantee you the air in that manifold runner isn't sitting in there heating up nearly as much is people think or want to believe. There are many reasons this engines doesn't make amazing power a hot IM isn't one of them.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

The same could be said about your pulleys.

I didn't pay $4680 :b

[prandelia]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I didn't pay $4680 :b

I paid $2900 for the manifold.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by prandelia

I paid $2900 for the manifold.

And how much about the custom tune , dyno time etc? It's not plug & play ...

[prandelia]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

You need torque below 4500 for racing? Especially with 8k rev limiter?

For the last 2 years with my OE manifold and stock redline, the 350 is the best all around for NA motor. Now that I'm going to 8K, the 250 might be worth a try. That is something that could be tested relatively easily on the dyno. We'll see.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Perfectly designed scenario...Are you just looking to argue? Hot idling in staging lanes before running down a drag strip is far from perfect, its literally sitting in traffic..

Both IMs will get just as hot regardless of the situation. Metals transfer thermal energy better, that doesn't mean they get hotter. You can have two 100°F blocks, one of Al and one of plastic. The Al will feel hotter to the touch because it conducts it's heat away from it and to YOU better than plastic but they both are still 100°F. If anything the plastic will heat soak more because it can't dissipate the thermal energy efficiently in heat cycling. Additionally, while running E85 like the OP is, the cooling effect of the e85 spray from the port injectors will be greater in the Al IM vs the plastic IM. Ambient air intake temps should be a greater concern; always.

Lastly do not worry so much about the weight of the Al IM vs the plastic IM. I have both, its maybe 1lbs.. The Plastic IM is a dense composite to deal with sitting on a hot engine block with a plenum 2X the size of the MY17+. Since my scenario involved the MY17+ IM, it also should be noted that the wrinkle finish radiates heat better than a smooth one. Heat soak is buzz word on this forum for some reason. I guarantee you the air in that manifold runner isn't sitting in there heating up nearly as much is people think or want to believe. There are many reasons this engines doesn't make amazing power a hot IM isn't one of them.

Sitting in a staging lane with a cold engine purposely idling to warm it up isn’t generating heat like stop and go with a warmed up engine that you don’t cool down between runs. unless you’re doing back to back hot lap it’s a bad. The specific example didn’t have details other then going down a track then checking temps. So be could have gone down with oil at 160 barely in staging lane or gone down at 220 sitting for an hour. 10-15seconds of 100% WOT will be more beneficial for AI as it sheds faster but what about 5sec on 5sec off 10 times in a row. There are other people who tested it with plastic vs aluminum intakes and aluminum was always hotter.

You even said aluminum is better at shedding heat IE giving off it’s heat to everything else... which was my main concern i stated in my previous post about AI heat soak. You’d need to look at IAT, oil, coolant temps (not just manifold temp) in a perfect test environment to see if over enough time the AI had any detriment, even if 1F hotter it’s a negative not being compensated by any positive.

I never even said it was a huge deal like heatsoak will rob you of 20hp or something.

You know how many people go to great lengths on an NA track car to lose 1 lbs?

Is the potential for heatsoak a huge deal no, but is it a good thing no. Most people prefer plastic to AI on intake components.
Is 1 lbs a huge deal, no, but it is heavier so it’s a negative even if small.

So let’s break it down.

$3,000+
Lose 5hp
Gain 1+ lbs of weight
Potentially having the Al heat up other components as it heats up faster and then sheds it’s heat to other components quicker.

The last two points are very minimal not drastic issues (that you seem fixated on arguing about instead of the first two major issues.), if it gained 5hp instead of losing 5hp it would more than offset the last two, but they are still negative concerns that add up, and considering no one has proven to make any gains it seems it is all negatives, and then you look at price... I just don’t see a silver lining on this product.