07-05-2018, 07:42 PM | #43 | |
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The reason its not more of an issue here is most of the board are ricers who fit the biggest wheels they can and use 2" spacers to go with their knockoff rocket bunny fenders
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The Following User Says Thank You to SuperTom For This Useful Post: | TorontoNat (07-06-2018) |
07-05-2018, 07:57 PM | #44 | |
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07-05-2018, 09:16 PM | #45 | ||
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I'm not disputing that widening the rear track alone will cause more understeer, my point was that if you're nowhere near the limit you won't feel that at all. Understeer by definition is the front wheels losing grip before the rears in a corner, if no wheels are losing grip you're not under or over steering, the car is just turning. IMO, take the spacers out and go for a drive and record it. Take a bunch of 90* corners and make sure the video can see your hands and the steering wheel. Put the spacers back in and do it again, same corners and same speed. I still bet it's in your head. Quote:
See above, and the original comment from the OP about the car not being anywhere near the limits of grip.
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The Following User Says Thank You to wparsons For This Useful Post: | Icecreamtruk (07-06-2018) |
07-05-2018, 10:13 PM | #46 |
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I’m talking general setup theory. Not sure if you understand that or not. I’m not saying if you widen the rear of an FRS/BRZ/86 by 20mm per side that you will feel understeer/less steering. We really don’t know all the details and some people are more sensitive than others. How about you try to widen the rear of your car and give us your feedback? I can’t because my engine is out of the car. Heheh
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The Following User Says Thank You to JimmyMac For This Useful Post: | rvoll (07-06-2018) |
07-06-2018, 12:32 AM | #47 | |
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But you are wrong about not feeling it at all. Perhaps YOU don't sense it, but I certainly do and now with measurements have confirmed that it is true. |
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07-06-2018, 12:34 AM | #48 |
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07-06-2018, 01:30 AM | #49 |
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That is not even "technically" understeer.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Subsonic For This Useful Post: | wparsons (07-08-2018) |
07-06-2018, 01:47 AM | #50 |
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I really don't care if it is "technically" understeer or not. That's why I put it in quotes. The effect is still there no matter what it is.
However, if you want definitions, here they are: un·der·steer (Google) verb 1. (of a motor vehicle) have a tendency to turn less sharply than is intended. "the car understeers on very fast bends" noun ˈəndərˌstir/Submit 1. the tendency of a vehicle to understeer. Wikipedia "Understeer and oversteer are vehicle dynamics terms used to describe the sensitivity of a vehicle to steering. Oversteer is what occurs when a car turns (steers) by more than the amount commanded by the driver. Conversely, understeer is what occurs when a car steers less than the amount commanded by the driver. Automotive engineers define understeer and oversteer based on changes in steering angle associated with changes in lateral acceleration over a sequence of steady-state circular turning tests. Car and motorsport enthusiasts often use the terminology more generally in magazines and blogs to describe vehicle response to steering in all kinds of maneuvers." I don't know where you are getting your definitions. Do you really understand the term? Specifically, my car steers less than the amount commanded by me when compared to stock. |
07-06-2018, 02:53 AM | #51 |
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If you don't care to be technically correct in your posts, how do you expect any sort of help to your own discussion? Understeer is absolutely universally used to describe a condition where while cornering, the front tires begin to slip first. By using the term understeer you are describing the performance of the tyre as it is sliding, it really is that simple. If you want to use it to describe extra steering effort or some weird feeling that you can’t describe that’s fine (this is the internet after all), just be aware that people might perceive you as just inexperienced, in whom an investment in a comprehensive reply will not be accepted or even understood. Most who are technically competent (there are plenty on this forum) simply won’t bother to reply.
On top of that, may I say that just casually dropping that you have driven a Porsche for 27 years somehow gives you some sort of sixth sense on how cars handle, or maybe that you’ve lost an eye gives you some sort of superhuman abilities. It all is just a bit too weird. In many forums, when someone starts waxing on about how many years he’d driven a Porsche, he’d be politely asked to take his hand off it, if you catch my drift. Good luck with your spacer problem. |
07-06-2018, 09:46 AM | #52 | |
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I'm talking about the stance crowd with wide tires or spacers and basically running on stock HP.
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07-06-2018, 11:22 AM | #53 |
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I was running 20mm spacers on 225/45-17 Bridgestone S-04's with wheels that had 4mm more positive offset than stock, (so the wheels were out 16mm at all 4 corners.)
I had a spacer snap a stud when I took it off one day, so I took both fronts off and drove around for a couple days while I waited on studs. I noticed oversteer reduced at the limit of the rear tires grip, and I noticed the car pushed a bit more, (I was running -2.5 degrees of front camber, and -1.5 degrees of rear camber on ST coilovers through this whole 'event'.) Put the fronts on and see if it's better. Also try the 20's in the rear with no fronts to see if you can feel the dynamics change front to back, which can help you get the right balance. (Maybe you need some 15mm slip on spacers at all 4 corners with extended studs...)
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The Following User Says Thank You to JazzleSAURUS For This Useful Post: | chaoskaze (07-07-2018) |
07-06-2018, 11:54 AM | #54 |
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Gosh!! 4 pages in and this thread has taken a turn for the worse...
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The Following User Says Thank You to JD001 For This Useful Post: | BasementN3k0 (07-06-2018) |
07-06-2018, 01:24 PM | #55 | |
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07-06-2018, 01:41 PM | #56 |
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I agree that putting spacers ONLY on the rear will increase understeer slightly. I read it wrong, I thought there was only a 5mm difference between the rear and front
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