Stingray vs. Modified Twin

[Ultramaroon]

Can someone please explain to me why being faster or slower than a minivan is even relevant? Honest question.

The obsession over these numbers and the perceived competition between total strangers truly baffles me. Again, I'm being completely honest. Not taking some forum high ground here, I promise.

This (or if I could fit in one, an mr2, s2k, miata...) is a fun little collection of parts. I read this stuff and I feel like I'm missing something.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

This (or if I could fit in one, an mr2, s2k, miata...) is a fun little collection of parts. I read this stuff and I feel like I'm missing something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferiority_complex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mascul...y_in_crisis.22

[ajh88]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Try $65-70k for a Cayman R.

A quick search of mine revealed 2 currently for sale in the US, one $62,000 and one $69,000. That won't change any time soon either.

Seriously, point me in the direction of one on sale for $45k and I'll buy it immediately.

I typically see mid 50s asking price on the Rennlist pages which means low 50s/high 40s sale price. Sure, the garage queens will go for more.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Can someone please explain to me why being faster or slower than a minivan is even relevant? Honest question.

The obsession over these numbers and the perceived competition between total strangers truly baffles me. Again, I'm being completely honest. Not taking some forum high ground here, I promise.

This (or if I could fit in one, an mr2, s2k, miata...) is a fun little collection of parts. I read this stuff and I feel like I'm missing something.

My frustration is how the numbers get manipulated to try and prove a point. I agree that being faster or slower than a minivan really doesn't matter. If people think that minivans are so fast they should go buy a minivan (in fact buy lots of Chrysler ones please) but when numbers that disprove this statement are presented then whole new sets of stats get invented.
Never ceases to amaze me how the 200HP and the torque dip numbers can be put out there to show how slow it supposedly is without dispute but as soon as numbers that show it isn't as slow as claimed appear then they must be wrong or distorted in some way so can't be true at all.
If people are getting beat by minivans then the car is not the issue.

[serialk11r]

I was half joking when I said slower than a minivan, and was trying to stir the pot a bit. My FRS would pull on the typical minivan from a stoplight only at full throttle, and I was not trying to race people. In terms of power to weight ratio a newer Honda J35 powered SUV like the MDX is actually quite close to the FRS, but it builds the power earlier in the rev range so it will actually outrun the FRS from a stop until the speed gets higher.

When I bought the FRS, I decided it was fast enough for me and had accepted the fact that it would not decisively beat a minivan or SUV from a stop. The question is, have you?

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Can someone please explain to me why being faster or slower than a minivan is even relevant? Honest question.

Some people like driving cars that accelerate quickly.


It is a different kind of fun.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I was half joking when I said slower than a minivan, and was trying to stir the pot a bit. My FRS would pull on the typical minivan from a stoplight only at full throttle, and I was not trying to race people. In terms of power to weight ratio a newer Honda J35 powered SUV like the MDX is actually quite close to the FRS, but it builds the power earlier in the rev range so it will actually outrun the FRS from a stop until the speed gets higher.

When I bought the FRS, I decided it was fast enough for me and had accepted the fact that it would not decisively beat a minivan or SUV from a stop. The question is, have you?

Minivans beat me all the time but it is because I let them not because they can. The minivan would have to be taking off in full throttle as well if it is going to "beat" you so we are still back to square one on the which is faster debate.
There are many top trim levels of SUVs that can indeed kick our asses but they are the minority of that segment not the majority. Many of them can also kick the ass of a many older Porsches and Corvettes though so where do people draw the line when comparing vehicles?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Some people like driving cars that accelerate quickly.


It is a different kind of fun.

I get that but there's so... much... emphasis on it that I wonder if some people who normally wouldn't give two shits about it don't fall into the trap. Hell, I catch myself feeling apologetic sometimes when describing it to a friend. "Oh, it looks a lot faster than it is blah blah blah..."

When in reality it's plenty fast enough. Not only is it just fine but it does GREAT at speed. ...all nimble and happy.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I get that but there's so... much... emphasis on it that I wonder if some people who normally wouldn't give two shits about it don't fall into the trap. Hell, I catch myself feeling apologetic sometimes when describing it to a friend. "Oh, it looks a lot faster than it is blah blah blah..."

When in reality it's plenty fast enough. Not only is it just fine but it does GREAT at speed. ...all nimble and happy.

I agree. In reality this car is fast enough for the majority of situations. I think it's hardest for people who have driven cars substantially faster than the 86. It almost feels like you're moving backwards in some ways. I'm not going to lie, I've owned cars a good amount faster in the past and sometimes miss having that extra bit of raw power.

For people who live in parts of the country with mostly flat, straight roads, I can see why the 86 wouldn't make much sense. Luckily I'm surrounded by amazing driving roads.

[serialk11r]

To be very clear, I was not talking about high end SUVs powered by V8s or FI engines. A typical 3.5L V6 J35Y6 or 2GR-FE in a 4200lb Odyssey or Pilot or Sienna vs. a FRS with a heavier driver is pretty close. You have 280-290hp peak (so 45% more) and 55% more weight with one driver, but the V6 engines are much stronger in the midrange.

I like to step hard on the throttle because that's what you pay for when you buy high octane gas, but I notice that basically every single minivan is matching my acceleration unless I rev well beyond 4000rpm. I don't think Norcal soccer moms are particularly lead footed either.

All that said, I did buy a faster 2ZZ MR2 Spyder which is Cayman fast, but not Corvette fast. That purchase was more for the glorious deafening engine noise rather than the speed though. If the FRS didn't sound so terrible I probably would have kept it.

[Kiske]

I actually drove a '16 Z51 Vette with the 2lt interior package for a considerable (2weeks, everyday) amount of time last year while my boosted twin was down (troubleshooting DI seal failure and a faulty map sensor.) I don't want to think about it but, I've probably roll just under 20k in mods in my BRZ too.

That being said right now, if my full wallet returned in hand- I wouldn't buy either.

The interior in the C7 feels almighty next to even an upgraded BRZ limited's which still feels bare-bones. The c7 may not be luxury but, the quality and soft-touch fullness and feel of things is vast over the twins. I may have just got to that age where I want my race car and my posh cake in one! Really my only complaint about the interior is the visibility which feels like your a gunner in a ww2 tank. Breaking necks just to make sure your good to pass is a major draw back. Gun it and pray :P

I hate the C7's steering feel. It feels very heavy despite all the power assistance. I'm sure the wider tires next to my 245's don't help but, the twins are hard to beat with how they feel turning in.

The car I was borrowing was an automatic with paddles. Not very enjoyable but, I think because of it the car felt MUCH slower than it should have. Then again the BRZ even boosted is slow when you don't clutch drop. First thing I noticed getting back into the BRZ other than the fuel burning smell (:P) was the nimbleness the car feels. I take that alone over the V8 anyday.


That being said, I do probably have close to 18-20k into my car. And it is nowhere near where I want it to be. With this car I decided to forgo any expense and just get good parts. If it takes a little bit more time and money to have reliability, then so be it. Even so I'm not at a level where I feel I could beat on it all-day everyday like you can a factory performance packaged car.

It's so easy to make a shopping cart and say you can drop 20k to get from point A to point B in mods. However your missing all the little things the time, money and issues you will get along the way that throw that budget out the window.

Everyday I have a 50% chance of getting into my twin and either loving it or contemplating if I should spend more money in hopes of getting that factory performance reliability and feel or just cut my loss and get a 981 GTS.

Not sure if any of that helps but, 2cents.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Can someone please explain to me why being faster or slower than a minivan is even relevant? Honest question.

The obsession over these numbers and the perceived competition between total strangers truly baffles me. Again, I'm being completely honest. Not taking some forum high ground here, I promise.

This (or if I could fit in one, an mr2, s2k, miata...) is a fun little collection of parts. I read this stuff and I feel like I'm missing something.

The drivers where I live are, well, total jackasses. There are a lot of single or double lane roads and every idiot at a stoplight always has to go the extra mile taking off from the light to make sure they get in front of you so that they can proceed to drive the speed limit on the dot or even 5 under and hold everyone behind them up. On the double lanes, there's usually two idiots so you need to get beside one at a light and make sure you can beat them before another one pulls out somewhere down the road. As a result of being stuck behind these cretins one too many times, I no longer tolerate this. I assume the worst and smoke them now. I almost never see anything in my rear view after I've gotten around them other than them disappearing in the distance because as I expected, they ended up driving slower when they get up to speed.


My Golf TDI was usually torquey enough to get in front of them but they run out of steam when you try to rev them out and there were actually a few non-sports cars beating me, even with a good launch and quick shifting. My criteria for a new car was unless the person is driving a sports car or sports sedan, I win that race and there's nothing the other person can do about it. That has held true with the toyoburu but I'd prefer to not have to launch and shift at redline to make sure it happens. So yes, it is important to me and it has to do with avoiding inconvenience, not with beating my chest because I'm faster than someone else.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you want to play with the stats until something works then that is fine.
The industry standard for comparing acceleration times is 0 to 60 and that is what was applied to the minivan is faster statement.

I've never argued that a minivan is faster in a 0-60 acceleration run. And yes, 0-60 is somewhat of an industry standard. But where 99.999% of Twin owners will encounter a minivan is on a PUBLIC ROAD. And on a public road, the most relevant acceleration statistic is 5-60 mph. You simply cannot deny this. Whether that matters to Twin owners is not the argument. Just stop denying reality here.

Originally Posted by serialk11r

To be very clear, I was not talking about high end SUVs powered by V8s or FI engines. A typical 3.5L V6 J35Y6 or 2GR-FE in a 4200lb Odyssey or Pilot or Sienna vs. a FRS with a heavier driver is pretty close. You have 280-290hp peak (so 45% more) and 55% more weight with one driver, but the V6 engines are much stronger in the midrange.

I like to step hard on the throttle because that's what you pay for when you buy high octane gas, but I notice that basically every single minivan is matching my acceleration unless I rev well beyond 4000rpm. I don't think Norcal soccer moms are particularly lead footed either.

All that said, I did buy a faster 2ZZ MR2 Spyder which is Cayman fast, but not Corvette fast. That purchase was more for the glorious deafening engine noise rather than the speed though. If the FRS didn't sound so terrible I probably would have kept it.

Gets it.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by ajh88

I typically see mid 50s asking price on the Rennlist pages which means low 50s/high 40s sale price. Sure, the garage queens will go for more.

Only one on Rennlist at the moment is race converted and listed for close to $120k. But I'm curious so please send me a link next time you see one. I wasn't aware that Rennlist was the place to for super low Porsche deals. Only 563 were imported to the US and they're highly desirable for their lightweight, so I'm not going to hold my breath.