STI Owner Thinks He Wants BRZ as DD & Track Car. Thoughts?

[JSube]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

There isn’t a problem I’m trying to fix that needs HP...That I'm not rushing to add power and use it only as a track car is a compliment to the car, I guess.

These are brilliant points, jmimac351, I appreciate your thoughtfulness with my questions. It helps me think about approaching the car on it's own terms for a while if I pull the trigger. And now I know the route to take for more power with CSG Mike's help and input from great forum members like yourself and many others.

I think I'm at a point where I want to get back to more of what the car mags call "chassis dynamics." My STI is fun, and the fun is oriented to the power it makes, which is considerable. But to make it light on it's feet would be a huge investment and even then, for me, the AWD platform would be working against it. If what I really want is a ticket back to RWD with great balance, handling and a dog seat, the BRZ comes out looking pretty great.

[Twinz]

I autocrossed a 350Z for over a decade before switching to the FRS. I thought the Z was "good" at almost everything and "great" at almost nothing. (Good all-around sports car) I feel like FRS is "great" at almost everything and "meh" on power under 4500RPM.

I usually don't have a problem with the FRS' s power on the track, now that I am getting used to the shift points and generally stay in the top half of the tach. (It's decent up there) And it doesn't have the wheel-hop issue that the Z's have. They can actually put down similar 60ft times at Pro Solo's.

Mundane traffic is usually where I miss my Z's torque. The Z could do stuff (power-wise) that the FRS needs a downshift or two (and extra ettention) to accomplish.

[jmimac351]

JSube, it's my pleasure and there are others on here with obvious experience who have posted as well. What I shared is what's working for me; however, there could be other recipes out there that are better. I don't chase BRZ parts much since what I have is working well for me. CSGMike is hardcore about this stuff and is a great resource. Personally, I am extremely pleased with the brakes I have. What's usually a thorn in the side of anyone who does a lot of track days is a jewel for me.

If you do decide to pickup a car, let me know. I think I have some front track pads for OEM calipers around here somewhere I can send you. That's not an excuse not to go to the track though. I had mine at Sebring with 600 miles, completely stock. Stock pads and fluid work fine... More gas, less brake.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

JSube, it's my pleasure and there are others on here with obvious experience who have posted as well. What I shared is what's working for me; however, there could be other recipes out there that are better. I don't chase BRZ parts much since what I have is working well for me. CSGMike is hardcore about this stuff and is a great resource. Personally, I am extremely pleased with the brakes I have. What's usually a thorn in the side of anyone who does a lot of track days is a jewel for me.

If you do decide to pickup a car, let me know. I think I have some front track pads for OEM calipers around here somewhere I can send you. That's not an excuse not to go to the track though. I had mine at Sebring with 600 miles, completely stock. Stock pads and fluid work fine... More gas, less brake.

It's great to hear perspective from "the other side of the coin" that doesn't involve throwing money at imaginary issues. I've had a similar evolutionary path that started with buying a used car from a friend and heading to the track with just a fluid change. Light mods really helped the car get around quicker and the header/E85 tune made it much easier to actually pass the cars you would catch.


However my goal was always to make the car even quicker while retaining the reliability. My circle of track friends(including the one who sold me this car) have always run high dollar machines and I was forever working on "catching up" (several of them are on a Chump team with me so you understand the pressure!). Got to within a few 10th's of running teens at Roebling (NA) while they were all 18/19. So of course it's time for forced induction. Now they all went on a Viper ACR buying spree and it's game over but it's still been a fun run doing more with less!


Would like to know your source for the scrubs if you don't mind.

[Calvin27]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

It's great to hear perspective from "the other side of the coin" that doesn't involve throwing money at imaginary issues.

There is a really good reason why mx5 (miatas) have a cult following. at 2pm on track day most cars will be in the pits, while they are still out here ripping it up. The 86 is like this. I'm on three track days with this car and not a single issue, even on 37 deg C days. First was with stock pads, then project Mu's and then with headers and tune running E10 99.5RON.

[hpde_addict]

Originally Posted by Calvin27

There is a really good reason why mx5 (miatas) have a cult following. at 2pm on track day most cars will be in the pits, while they are still out here ripping it up. The 86 is like this. I'm on three track days with this car and not a single issue, even on 37 deg C days. First was with stock pads, then project Mu's and then with headers and tune running E10 99.5RON.

I assume you are monitoring oil temps?

[Locust]

Originally Posted by cjd

Torque crater? Overblown...

Originally Posted by Calvin27

1. If you are experiencing the torque dip, then you are driving it wrong.

I wouldn't say the torque dip is overblown... Just depends on what kind of driving you're doing. Unless you're blasting around town when you're daily driving you're going to feel it at intersections. If someone in a Prius wants in front of you off the line at a light they probably will get there unless you're going balls to the wall.

At the track? Ya you shouldn't be dealing with it as much. At autocross though you definitely feel it but that's the nature of the game there.

[JSube]

Originally Posted by Calvin27

1. If you are experiencing the torque dip, then you are driving it wrong.

Originally Posted by Calvin27

...I'm on three track days with this car and not a single issue, even on 37 deg C days. First was with stock pads, then project Mu's and then with headers and tune running E10 99.5RON.

Driving it wrong or don't have headers, a tune & race fuel!
But I get it, Calvin27- the torque dip is essentially meaningless on track (and the new cars have a better final drive for fun anyway.)
This thread's been helpful for me to get a handle on managing my expectations for the BRZ should I trade the STI for it like I'm now planning to do. So my equation is to understand I'm trading outright power for a truly special chassis, which is the same equation I'd be making on the MX-5 RF if it had a dog seat in back. jmimac351 (and others) lives on track with an untouched engine and still loves it, you (and others) have tuned out the torque dip with a pretty basic formula and I'd say that makes it a more fun DD and certainly has track benefits too. I think you're both right

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Locust

Unless you're blasting around town when you're daily driving you're going to feel it at intersections.

lol I almost never rev past 3.5k on public roads, no torque dip for me.

[Calvin27]

Originally Posted by hpde_addict

I assume you are monitoring oil temps?

Yep. I did bump the oil grade to 5-30 though.

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Would like to know your source for the scrubs if you don't mind.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner and please don't share this around... I got them from John Berget tires but I'm finding they are hard to come by... Probably because there aren't many cars running that size and people like me are giving up their source. Berget is no secret for selling used tires. I may have found another source this past weekend at Sebring with a local team that runs with Pirelli World Challenge and tests with Chin at Sebring. I've got a bunch of heat cycles on mine and I keep pounding them. Are they as good as new? No, but they are better than an NT01 or any legitimate street tire. It was cool this weekend and I went out not expecting much. Yesterday I went out in the afternoon in drying conditions from earlier rain and temps in the low 60s. I was surprised how quick they came up. The next time I went out they were still "awake" and ready to go. I guess there's a reason why they cost $390/ea, new.

245/620-17 They fit a 17x9 Apex wheel PERFECTLY.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Would like to know...source for...scrubs

http://usedracingtires.com/

No affiliation, except as a satisfied customer who's bought many sets of tires from Jean Paul. It's a great resource for wets: http://usedracingtires.com/collectio...ontinental-wet

There will be more tires available after the season gets going.

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by dradernh

http://usedracingtires.com/

No affiliation, except as a satisfied customer who's bought many sets of tires from Jean Paul. It's a great resource for wets: http://usedracingtires.com/collectio...ontinental-wet

There will be more tires available after the season gets going.

I contacted JP a while ago. He had some Pirelli DH in the size I wanted, but upon further review, he didn't want to sell them as he wasn't satisfied with their condition. (Good) I contacted him because one of the guys at Chin had just picked up a set and was very happy with the condition of the ones he received. His price is a premium over other scrub options I've bought in the past, but it sounds like he may be delivering quality stuff. His price was $600 shipped for scrubs in the size I'd want. That is definitely at the top end of what I'd consider paying for scrub tires. A brand new set of NT01 are a little over $100 more (shipped), and when you consider the heat cycle performance of NT01, they make a lot of sense as well. The good news is there are at least 2 viable options for good grip that don't cost a fortune. At least, they are the 2 options that I have the most interest in using.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

245/620-17 They fit a 17x9 Apex wheel PERFECTLY.

I have two sets of track wheels one 17x9 the other 17x8. I currently run 245/40 17 on both sets as both widths are within the recommended guidelines. The numbers for scrubs are not familiar to me but I should assume 245/620 would be fine on an 8' wheel as well?