Am I the only one who thinks a swapped 86 is no longer an 86?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

If you get a heart transplant are you still the same person afterwards? What about lungs, liver, kidney, cornea, joint replacements, artificial limbs, etc...? At what point are you no longer you?

Not the same thing. Not like they take out your heart and throw in a Super Pumper 5000 that makes you far better than you were before and changes you from human to Superman.
You are talking more take out the old broken part and put a working one back in. That is repair not "upgrading".

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not the same thing. Not like they take out your heart and throw in a Super Pumper 5000 that makes you far better than you were before and changes you from human to Superman.
You are talking more take out the old broken part and put a working one back in. That is repair not "upgrading".

But it's a different model than the original. Especially joint replacements. My father has had two knee replacements. The artificial knees work very similarly to the original knees and even a little better, but they're not the same thing at all. When spitfire481's oil pump shit itself, took his FA20 with it, and he decided to replace it with a 2JZ, he was just removing the broken part (internal combustion engine) and replacing it with a different model of the same basic part (internal combustion engine). Is it not still an FRS?

[guybo]

Originally Posted by ZDan

V8s have a very low center of gravity, particularly cam-in-block OHV V8s. A Corvette's 17.5" center of gravity is lower than the flat-4 FT86's 18", and much lower than that of a flat-6 Porsche 911's (19").

Flat-engine architecture giving a lower c.g. is IMO kind of a myth. A lot of the c.g. height advantage is lost because you have to situate the crank centerline higher in order to have clearance for exhaust headers. This means the crank itself, flywheel, and transmission are situated higher than they would be with a V or inline engine. This is apparent in a cutaway view of the FT86


Also apparent is how far forward the flat engine has to be situated to clear the steering shaft.

Flat-4 FR also precludes use of double-wishbones for suspension, so the promise of a low hoodline is somewhat killed by strut suspension in addition to the engine being mounted somewhat high and forward.

IMO, a V4 would be the ideal powerplant for an FT86 or MX-5 class sports/sporty car.

I guess that's why a vette costs 3x as much? But for a similar price to the Twins, you end up with the V8 of a Challenger that has it's own gravity well and a moon.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

If you get a heart transplant are you still the same person afterwards? What about lungs, liver, kidney, cornea, joint replacements, artificial limbs, etc...? At what point are you no longer you?

Knowing people who have undergone such surgeries, my resounding answer is NO!!. They are NOT the same person they were before becoming so deathly ill that the needed these transplants.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Knowing people who have undergone such surgeries, my resounding answer is NO!!. They are NOT the same person they were before becoming so deathly ill that the needed these transplants.

Due to the illness, not the replacement itself.

[Tokay444]

I actually think it's closer to 70% the replacement, 30% the illness.
Read up on people whom have received organ donation. They begin to take on different tastes and personality traits that when traced back to an organ donor, whom they've never known, are the same as the donor.

[gramicci101]

You're not helping my "it's still the same thing" argument.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

You're not helping my "it's still the same thing" argument.

Because it's NOT. The car is called an 86, because of the 86mm square motor.
Take that away and it can't be called an 86 anymore.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Because it's NOT. The car is called an 86, because of the 86mm square motor.
Take that away and it can't be called an 86 anymore.

But it can still be called an FRS or BRZ. Those titles have nothing to do with the 86mm square motor.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Because it's NOT. The car is called an 86, because of the 86mm square motor.
Take that away and it can't be called an 86 anymore.

I don't think so. It's because enthusiasts needed a spiritual successor to latch onto. A marketing ploy if you will. If they'd have called it a Toyota 2000, no one would understand why. Hell, there's still people on here who don't realize that the twins' silhouette is that of a 2000GT.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

But it's a different model than the original. Especially joint replacements. My father has had two knee replacements. The artificial knees work very similarly to the original knees and even a little better, but they're not the same thing at all. When spitfire481's oil pump shit itself, took his FA20 with it, and he decided to replace it with a 2JZ, he was just removing the broken part (internal combustion engine) and replacing it with a different model of the same basic part (internal combustion engine). Is it not still an FRS?

No it is not just changing for a different model. If I blew my engine and swapped in a 2017 one that is a different model.
Replacing it with a 2JZ is the same as changing a knee for something along the line of the Bionic Man not just replacing a joint. You have changed the capabilities of the original to such an extent that it no longer is in the same field. I need to be clear that when I say it is no longer the same it means you have changed something so much that it is usually far superior than the original. I am not being a purest and saying leave it alone or that the end result is in any way a lesser vehicle. Just not the same as the name and badge would indicate.
How is it reasonable that an engine swapped car can make claims to be the fastest of all that model of car? If they claim it is the fastest 2JZ swapped car then that is cool since they are not saying that it is a XXX.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Because it's NOT. The car is called an 86, because of the 86mm square motor.
Take that away and it can't be called an 86 anymore.

So Mustangs have horse parts?

[LOLS2K]

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So Mustangs have horse parts?

That's where they get the leather for the interior.